Kalkhoff latest impulse crankdrive system

[indalo]

But I think Panasonic have perhaps the worst power-up I've come across.
James

You have me at a loss I'm afraid James. What gear and power level are you talking about for the "scary" take-off you describe?

Your description is alien to me and I haven't actually heard such a complaint from other Panasonic system owners. On my early model, I normally start in 4th gear, (of 8) using low power or no power at all and neither the machine nor me has any problem. If I use high power in the same circumstance, it does move the bike off very smartly but in no way could I call the power-up scary.

As for your "agricultural" remark, I really do differ most strongly. Every hub-driven bike I've ridden so far seems exactly like that whereas I would describe the Panasonic crank-drive as an elegant piece of engineering in comparison.

Do you perhaps sell a model of ebike powered by something other than a Panasonic motor?

Regards,
Indalo

 

[NRG]

A 'vested interest' remark methinks probably like the 'sharp cutoff' remarks from the competition.



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[james@justebikes.co.uk]

If you're expecting it (eg experienced) it wont come as a surprise. My point is that folk trying one for the first time are often unnerved by an e-bike taking off unexpectedly.

 

[flecc]

In defence of James, even a fit older teenager and experienced cyclist was taken aback by the sudden kick off response to a firm pedal thrust when first trying one, and that was the old lower power earlier unit.

All the Panasonic units have maximum power available from a standstill, depending on the force applied to a pedal, but it can only surprise the first time of trying one. The mistake then is applying the same hard first thrust that's used on normal bikes for take-off and expecting the same sluggish response.

 

[tillson]

If you're expecting it (eg experienced) it wont come as a surprise. My point is that folk trying one for the first time are often unnerved by an e-bike taking off unexpectedly.

It's not a case of expecting it James, they simply don't, "take off" in the way that you are suggesting. Maybe the Flyers that you used to sell had this characteristic, but the Panasonic powered bikes that I have tried and the one that I own have no hint of this power surge. Everything is very natural, quiet and smooth to the extent that you could be fooled into thinking that the motor isn't working. That is until you switch off the power and it then becomes apparent that you have indeed been receiving a helping hand.

I'm not one of these precious types who will defend the brand of bike which they happen to own, but the way in which you describe the power delivery from the Panasonic unit is not my experience. Didn't the manufacturers of the Flyer re-program the Panasonic software? Could this account for your different experience?

Edit: crossed with flecc

 

[eddieo]

In fairness, this is the first venture by Bosch into anything to do with cycling.
.

Bosch are one of the largest privately owned company's in the world,and world biggest automotive technology company. They are a registered charity and plough twice the normal amounts of money back into R&R and a considerable amount to charity. In 2010 they turned over 47.5 billion. They have profits in the billions per year (suffering like everyone else at the moment). I think when they decide to do something they are pretty serious, and have the kind of resources that others can only dream about.......

They do not build or design bikes but have designed a very good system to power the latest generation of e bikes. That the system has been adopted by more then 16 major bike manufacturers must tell you something, in fact it is hard to keep up with the number of adopters.

I and many others at home and abroad like the feel and performance of the system very much.....All I am saying is before you go out and spend your hard earned on another crank drive bike, give one a go!lol

 

[flecc]

I'm aware if that of course Eddie, but likewise Panasonic, they are a giant too with widespread involvement in many areas.

My observation was not a criticism, just an observation of the vastly different relative experience. The point is that experience in a field can't be bought with cash, only with time.

There's no doubt that many like the Bosch system, just as many like the Panasonic one. I'm just pleased we have the choice and have more types arriving. As ever with e-bikes and their motor systems, there is no best one, the preferences are too personal for each individual for there to be only one. Both the Panasonic and Bosch systems are obviously just too good to be ignored when choosing a crank drive e-bike, and preferably both should be tried before buying, as well as some hub motor bikes.

 

[eTim]

Crank Wars - I like it !

 

[tangent]

It's system allows full power at any cadence and is cunningly arranged so that low, medium or high cadence riders can have their individual prefered cadence at legal cutoff speeds.
.

So how does this work? And how is the bike speed limited?

 

[flecc]

So how does this work? And how is the bike speed limited?

Best I answer more fully after I've been riding and examining one, which is currently scheduled for next week on the first one in this country.

I do know how it works, but I suspect I'll be able to give a wider range of useful information after physically checking it out. I'll publish a full report in the forum of course.

 

[lemmy]

Way back when we were Flyer dealers we'd cringe when madame placed a foot on a pedal whilst adjusting her skirts... Whoosh/Yelp/and sometimes Bang! would follow as she was unexpectedly thrust forward. Scary.
James

I use a throttle on my hub bikes only to get me going as the pedelec system takes a couple of crank revolutions or so to get the motor started and this can be a real benefit at junctions etc.

Two people with who obviously have personal experience of Panasonic powered bikes seem to have slightly contradictory views

Can you reconcile them Flecc? Or do you know where the Jekyll/ Hyde switch resides on my Tasman?

It seems we Panasonic users have the choice of having our legs ripped off by sheer unbridled power or getting crushed under a lorry as we struggle to pedal away from traffic lights.

If I may add my couple of years personal experience, both of these views are tosh. Pedal from a stop gently and the bike takes off.....gently. Stick it in 3rd and stand on the pedals....it whips away nicely. And everything in between.

Unlike hub powered bikes which short circuit and electrocute the rider if you pedal hard away from the lights or Bosch powered ones which explode if you change gear too soon. Well that's what I think anyway

 

[NRG]

Two people with who obviously have personal experience of Panasonic powered bikes seem to have slightly contradictory views

Can you reconcile them Flecc? Or do you know where the Jekyll/ Hyde switch resides on my Tasman?

It seems we Panasonic users have the choice of having our legs ripped off by sheer unbridled power or getting crushed under a lorry as we struggle to pedal away from traffic lights.

If I may add my couple of years personal experience, both of these views are tosh. Pedal from a stop gently and the bike takes off.....gently. Stick it in 3rd and stand on the pedals....it whips away nicely. And everything in between.

Unlike hub powered bikes which short circuit and electrocute the rider if you pedal hard away from the lights or Bosch powered ones which explode if you change gear too soon. Well that's what I think anyway

Why are you quoting me out of context? My comment was about how I ride my hub powered bikes not my PCS...BTW has never displayed the sudden acceleration alluded to by James

 

[Tim]

It's unmitigated nonsense about this supposed jarring start with the Panasonic drive and we've been selling one form or another since 2004.

The only bike which had this characteristic was the old eZee Quando, which definitely did have the "whoaaaa...." factor. It was also prone to rearing up if you happened to twist the throttle when not sitting on it, like a playful colt.

 

[flecc]

Can you reconcile them Flecc? Or do you know where the Jekyll/ Hyde switch resides on my Tasman?

It seems we Panasonic users have the choice of having our legs ripped off by sheer unbridled power or getting crushed under a lorry as we struggle to pedal away from traffic lights.

If I may add my couple of years personal experience, both of these views are tosh. Pedal from a stop gently and the bike takes off.....gently. Stick it in 3rd and stand on the pedals....it whips away nicely. And everything in between.

You've already summed it up Lemmy, as I did above, it depends on whether one thrusts a pedal down sharply. In other words, it's perfect, the power necessary for any given circumstance always under the rider's control.

Tim is quite right about the Quando, I accidentally touched a pedal indoors one day when mine was switched on and it punched a hole in a door in front of it! It really could be a very scary e-bike, only ever matched by the equally scary original Currie Electrodrive many years ago. The Currie was subsequently tamed, but the Quando must still be treated with respect and caution.

 

[lemmy]

Why are you quoting me out of context?

My apologies if so. I had taken your comment that "as the pedelec system takes a couple of crank revolutions or so to get the motor started" to mean that the pedelec system took a while to get on song.

I still can't see what else it means but if you say it doesn't mean that, I accept it, of course.

 

[andyh2]

If you haven't been told/warned of the extra thrust available with a panasonic system and set off applying the same force as you would on an unassisted bike I can see how it could catch folk out, especially the first time or 2 and when in a low gear.

Once you are used to it it's great, as you can choose whether you want a normal or quick set off. It's especially helpful setting off uphill with a load as it helps you get up to a stable speed straight away without wobbling about the road.