Longtail cargo bikes for e kit conversion.

[Nealh]

Over the past 6 months I have been looking for a better load lugging bike that has much more cargo appeal then the usual bike.
Just a few bikes I have been looking at.

Kona Ute no more in production it appears though I did manage to buy an immaculate 2020 example this week via ebay, a rearward bias C of G with the extended rear frame, rack deck and large side bags fitted. Ideal formy use with 650b wheels that will cope with the 5 mile railway track route with a trailer in tow.

8 freight designed by Mike Burrows, a 20" wheeled 2.4m long cargo bike. A unique design coming in at 20kg.
One went for £1120 on ebay a fortnight ago, I put in a low bid in the off chance of winning but really the storage or keeping it was the issue as it would take up a lot of room.

Tern node cargo a small folding option quite good size wise but gave that up as dead duck after checking reviews, Tern's have a bad track record of the hinge welds failing. I found one thread with some 100 replies and the pics showing very poor weld penetration and the failures not restricted to one bike in the range but affecting quite a few since the bikes inception.

Yuba Mundo & Kombi, good quality cargo LT bikes though with fixed position running boards again makes storage parking a bit wide. Base bike are bare so one has to factor in the extra's and price.

Surly big dummy similar to Mundo but a hefty 2.5K price tag.

Trek transporter cargo a rare bike but has a massive 400lb cargo carrying capacity and no longer made.

Bicicapace Justlong from Italy, small wheeled heavy steel frame,

One unusual bike I did consider was the Circe Helios tandem cargo version, a 20" wheeler with nice appeal as a cargo bike, the rear seat stem is replace with a two part cargo rack. Again prices are often keen as they are sought after bikes and te cargo rack is some £400 in addition.

 

[Nealh]

The cargo bikes tend to have a 48 spoke count rim so not suitable for a hub motor, I haven't actually yet checked the Ute. But my initial though was tsdz 48v mid drive over the BBS, I have a BBS with no controller and haven't been all that impressed by it.

I bought the bike via ebay last week and collected it Tuesday, not local though and a 402 mile round trip was required to collect and pay for it.
My trusty 15y/o astra 1.7cdi estate again came in very handy and returned over 60mpg for the journey costing £40 in fuel.

Once a decent day appears I will post a pic of Ute and CF coupled up.

 

[Nealh]

For the battery I will likely make up a 48v bottle battery in 3P config as the range I will need isn't that important. From my 12s bottle battery used on the now defunct Norco, I get 25 - 30 miles from the 6ah battery with pucker 20a LG HG2 cells, I may even use this for the Ute.
For the 48V battery I fancy trying out one of the China cells mentioned in the Samsung battery thread and have an inkling to try the BKA 20a 18650 cell in 3P or the Lishen 10a 21700 .

 

[guerney]

The cargo bikes tend to have a 48 spoke count rim so not suitable for a hub motor, I haven't actually yet checked the Ute. But my initial though was tsdz 48v mid drive over the BBS, I have a BBS with no controller and haven't been all that impressed by it.

I bought the bike via ebay last week and collected it Tuesday, not local though and a 402 mile round trip was required to collect and pay for it.
My trusty 15y/o astra 1.7cdi estate again came in very handy and returned over 60mpg for the journey costing £40 in fuel.

Once a decent day appears I will post a pic of Ute and CF coupled up.

Yes I wondered where you'd gone! Off to collect your prize... An "Immaculate" Ute is well worth travelling 400+ miles for! I'm certain that the controller dying on my BBS01B was my fault (about 1300 miles) - it's "Uprated" mosfets might be marketing hype? I've only done a couple of hundred miles with the new controller - time'll tell, too early to know unfortunately. I think that you mentioned that the controller on your BBS01 only lasted about 1300 miles? That's abysmal.

 

[guerney]

This chap managed to cycle 13,000km to China on a BBSHD, so some Bafang controllers must be ok:

In fact, that video is why I chose a Bafang.

 

[guerney]

For the 48V battery I fancy trying out one of the China cells mentioned in the Samsung battery thread and have an inkling to try the BKA 20a 18650 cell in 3P or the Lishen 10a 21700 .

Cheap Chinese batteries can't be rubbish forever, hope you'll post up the build and results!

 

[sjpt]

Cycling UK magazine had an article on cargo bikes with some short writeups on e-cargo bikes, non e cargo bikes and conversion possibilities. I can't see it online at the moment, if it would help I can post the main conclusions.

 

[guerney]

if it would help I can post the main conclusions.

Are you holding out on us sjpt? ( )

 

[Nealh]

Yes sjpt, please post them as they may help others.
Imho conclusions from a magazine and the writers views are just that, conclusions.
Whether long tail of front loading cargo all depends on the use it is intended for.

I settled on the Ute mainly for it ability to load a good rear load and the fact it has no wide running boards, in my case an item not required as passenger's will not be carried. Though I may adapt/add very narrow ones just to add bottom support for heavy laden bags.

 

[Nealh]

The BBSHD though is a beast and 4x the power of the bbs01, both my controllers failed first one was 1600miles.

 

[guerney]

The BBSHD though is a beast and 4x the power of the bbs01, both my controllers failed first one was 1600miles.

An outlaw BBSHD Kona Ute would be a beast of a cargo bike, for your especially rapid "Honey Express" deliveries! When you get pursued by cops, one could swiftly deploy honey counter-measures onto the road, to stick Police cars down and getaway!

 

[sjpt]

Are you holding out on us sjpt? ( )

No, just too lazy to find where I put it unless it really will be helpful.

 

[guerney]

No, just too lazy to find where I put it unless it really will be helpful.

Thanks @Nealh!

I'm certainly in the market for a cargo solution. Nealh kindly alerted me to the prescence of a pucker Carry Freedom (the large version) on ebay, but I was too stingy to shell out for the £15 delivery charge, and submitted a bid too low at £187 - if I had bidded £200 as I originally planned, I would possibly have won it, because I submitted my bid within 2.5 seconds of the end, and there would have not been any time for anyone else to respond (unless someone had automatic bidding set higher than £200). My competing bids topped out (automatic bidding) below £197, which was the amount I was asked to bid to possibly seal the deal (after attempting to bid £187), but by then it was also too late for me - bidding ended, sold at £186.99. I'm in no particular hurry - I won't need one till the end of October next year at the latest.

There were two spurts of automatic bidding towards the end... here's how it all went down, for those not already bored:

------------------------

9***rFeedback score (966)

£186.99

10 Nov 2021 at 10:24:35pm GMT
n***0Feedback score (110)

£181.99

10 Nov 2021 at 10:24:35pm GMT
n***0Feedback score (110)

£161.26

10 Nov 2021 at 10:24:35pm GMT
5***7Feedback score (289)

£156.26

10 Nov 2021 at 10:24:20pm GMT
5***7Feedback score (289)

£122.07

10 Nov 2021 at 10:24:20pm GMT
5***9Feedback score (139)

£120.07

10 Nov 2021 at 10:24:34pm GMT
5***7Feedback score (289)

£102.00

10 Nov 2021 at 10:24:20pm GMT
f***dFeedback score (558)

£100.00

9 Nov 2021 at 7:58:10pm GMT
f***dFeedback score (558)

£100.00

9 Nov 2021 at 7:58:10pm GMT
Starting price

£100.00

3 Nov 2021 at 10:24:41pm GMT

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[Nealh]

Ordered the TSDZ2 for the Ute today and some other bits off Ali to deal with heat reduction mods for the motor.
Ordered a 48v 250w spec motor with VLCD5 for some minimal OSF tweaking later.

I have a 44v battery so hoping it will run on that initially but have couple of longish bottle battery cases so need to dig them out to see how many 21700 cells I can fit in.
I have set my eyes on the BAK 21700cg 5000mah cells they are rated for 3C discharge but life cycle is said to be poor, 2C or less is safer for life cycle and the cells for discharge are equal to the SAM 50E at nearly £2 each less.

 

[guerney]

Ordered the TSDZ2 for the Ute today and some other bits off Ali to deal with heat reduction mods for the motor.
Ordered a 48v 250w spec motor with VLCD5 for some minimal OSF tweaking later.

I have a 44v battery so hoping it will run on that initially but have couple of longish bottle battery cases so need to dig them out to see how many 21700 cells I can fit in.
I have set my eyes on the BAK 21700cg 5000mah cells they are rated for 3C discharge but life cycle is said to be poor, 2C or less is safer for life cycle and the cells for discharge are equal to the SAM 50E at nearly £2 each less.

I'd certainly be interested in seeing your build! Are you going to use ferrofluid in your TSDZ2? Are your chosen cells generally available at the moment? I do hope you'll upload photos and details etc. about any new battery pack you construct.

 

[Nealh]

Ferro no, someone tried oil cooling on ES and it leaked out.
Just going to use adhesive conductive thermal pads and copper thin sheet etc,etc to fill all voids and a dual heat sensor with external display to start with. The OSF option allows one to solder the temp sensor direct to the controller and have the temp shown on the screen.
The BAK 21700 is/are available and I can order right now but shall wait, chances are they will be out of stock when/if I need them.

 

[Nealh]

I have a feeling I won't get 13s3p with spacers in the case in which case I will have to go 3p with 18650's if I use the bottle cases, optionally I can make up the 21700 pack with spacers and cover it with G10 FR4 0.4mm - 1mm grp sheet and shrink it. Plenty of room on the rear deck for the battery or in one of the oversize panniers.

The other option is the moli p42a a 4200mah 6c continuous cell, in 2p form 60a continuous and at the tsdz2 discharge rate one should get a theoretical 6500mah from 2p at 15a.

 

[Nealh]

Yes some are pretty good for the price.
Some of the cell specs match and can be even as good as the top branded known makes, it is only over time that cycling them in use will show up the better one as well.