New build.
- Thread starter amigafan2003
- Start date
Finished most it tonight.
First thing to address was the fact that when the bag is tightly secured against the frame it distorted as it isn't that rigid, so what I've done is cut down some of this:-
which is some carbon fiber sheet left over from my Westfield build. I've cut two pieces to length and inserted it into the bag on the bottom and side - the parts that are against the frame. This has greatly improved the bags rigidity.
Spirawrapped the throttle and motor wires and routed them as best as I could.
I didn't cut the cables as I might want to move the kit to another bike in the future so I had to get creative and loop it back on itself - worked out ok I think though. Controler is nice and secure - mounted at the bottom on on of the bottle mount lugs and at the top with a zip tie. I've used adhesive backed foam on the back of the controller to provide extra grip. hopefull it's location under the bag should protect it from the elements a little should I be unfortunate to get caught out in the weather.
So, with that all done I took it for a spin. Wow! The controller is still set to an lvc of 36v and 15a and maybe it's because it's my first ebike but it pulls really strongly, even being gentle on the throttle and pedalling it up to 6mph before using it. I probably live on the steepest hill in Blackpool so I turned left and powered up the hill - it's only 100 meters till the end of the road but I was doing 16mph by the top. Turned left out of my road onto the flat and I maxed out at bang on 20mph.
I'm a very happy bunny - I'm going to enjoy this ebike lark.
All I've got to do is find an extension cable for my Crystalite cruise control (or make one if I can find out what the connector type is) and adapt a brake cut out switch.
Can't wait for this rain to stop so I can take it on good test ride to estimate the range of the battery pack.
When it stops raining I'll get a full side on pic of the bike.
First thing to address was the fact that when the bag is tightly secured against the frame it distorted as it isn't that rigid, so what I've done is cut down some of this:-
which is some carbon fiber sheet left over from my Westfield build. I've cut two pieces to length and inserted it into the bag on the bottom and side - the parts that are against the frame. This has greatly improved the bags rigidity.
Spirawrapped the throttle and motor wires and routed them as best as I could.
I didn't cut the cables as I might want to move the kit to another bike in the future so I had to get creative and loop it back on itself - worked out ok I think though. Controler is nice and secure - mounted at the bottom on on of the bottle mount lugs and at the top with a zip tie. I've used adhesive backed foam on the back of the controller to provide extra grip. hopefull it's location under the bag should protect it from the elements a little should I be unfortunate to get caught out in the weather.
So, with that all done I took it for a spin. Wow! The controller is still set to an lvc of 36v and 15a and maybe it's because it's my first ebike but it pulls really strongly, even being gentle on the throttle and pedalling it up to 6mph before using it. I probably live on the steepest hill in Blackpool so I turned left and powered up the hill - it's only 100 meters till the end of the road but I was doing 16mph by the top. Turned left out of my road onto the flat and I maxed out at bang on 20mph.
I'm a very happy bunny - I'm going to enjoy this ebike lark.
All I've got to do is find an extension cable for my Crystalite cruise control (or make one if I can find out what the connector type is) and adapt a brake cut out switch.
Can't wait for this rain to stop so I can take it on good test ride to estimate the range of the battery pack.
When it stops raining I'll get a full side on pic of the bike.
Did a "commute" simulation run tonight - going the same route to work but turning back half way - that's 9.19 miles in total.
Did it full throttle, gentle pedaling and half of it was into a 20mph headwind! Also made sure I went up the only hill I have on my commute as well.
Battery pack just recharged - it put back in 8.259Ah out of a possible 20Ah so that's bang on my range estimate of 18miles a charge (allowing for max 80% discharge) and my estimate of 20watts/mile (actually worked out @ 20.07 watts/mile).
Best bit is the pack performed brilliantly with a steady 18.5mph into the strong head wind and 18mph up the hill on the route. Didn't feel like the pack was losing performance at all on the run either and ended at 46v.
If I take it easy on the parts of the commute that are bit busy (nearly the entire route is on Blackpool prom shared pedestrian/cycle route) and where they are doing the prom improvements and throttle back to 15mph I reckon I can add a couple of mile range for a buffer.
Very, very happy.
Did it full throttle, gentle pedaling and half of it was into a 20mph headwind! Also made sure I went up the only hill I have on my commute as well.
Battery pack just recharged - it put back in 8.259Ah out of a possible 20Ah so that's bang on my range estimate of 18miles a charge (allowing for max 80% discharge) and my estimate of 20watts/mile (actually worked out @ 20.07 watts/mile).
Best bit is the pack performed brilliantly with a steady 18.5mph into the strong head wind and 18mph up the hill on the route. Didn't feel like the pack was losing performance at all on the run either and ended at 46v.
If I take it easy on the parts of the commute that are bit busy (nearly the entire route is on Blackpool prom shared pedestrian/cycle route) and where they are doing the prom improvements and throttle back to 15mph I reckon I can add a couple of mile range for a buffer.
Very, very happy.
Great to see you've got it up and running. Do take it easy on the Tongxin though, they are quite delicate. Don't put it under too much strain and in particular, always pedal a bit to get moving before switching on the motor. I broke one due to being too heavy on it but also had thousands of miles from a couple of others without breakage (but I treated those very gently).
Yeah, I always peddle to about 6mph before using the thottle and even then very gently - I move it a bit until the motor stops accelerating, then move it a bit more and wait again and so on until top speed, pedalling all the while.
The idea for this bike is to peddle all the time (I'm sat down after all) but not to such an extent I get to work all hot and sweaty. the bike has met all my expectations so far - first commute to work and back tomorrow - fingers crossed ;-)
Oh, bike of how it looks now:-
Bought the Crud Rac Pack mud guard set for it but I don't like the rear one as it doesn't protect the cabling/controller on the seat tube and the front one wont fit due to the curved down tube so I've ordered one of the SKS full mud guard sets.
The idea for this bike is to peddle all the time (I'm sat down after all) but not to such an extent I get to work all hot and sweaty. the bike has met all my expectations so far - first commute to work and back tomorrow - fingers crossed ;-)
Oh, bike of how it looks now:-
Bought the Crud Rac Pack mud guard set for it but I don't like the rear one as it doesn't protect the cabling/controller on the seat tube and the front one wont fit due to the curved down tube so I've ordered one of the SKS full mud guard sets.
Looks nice, a nice simple setup thats pretty stealthy and with quite a bit of power to i would imagine.
Do you know what peaks you would be pulling etc...?
I'd imagine the balance of the bike would still feel quite good with the battery pack in the triangle and then the motor on the front.
I hope it performs well and keeps you on the run to work for many a mile.
Happy riding.
Do you know what peaks you would be pulling etc...?
I'd imagine the balance of the bike would still feel quite good with the battery pack in the triangle and then the motor on the front.
I hope it performs well and keeps you on the run to work for many a mile.
Happy riding.
Just read the thread from the start .. I am right in saying that you are not using a pedelec sensor?
Correct - thumb trottle only for now - with the spring removed so it stays where it's set. I'll put the spring back in when I've wired up the cruise control and brake cut out.
I've only got a 30amp 12v fuse inline atm so I can't have pulled more than about 8-10amps so far and that's with going up the steepest hill on my commute, no pedalling into a head wind at max throttleScottyf said:
Re: the brake sensor - what do you have? I mean .. do you know how it works? ... Is there a magnet that you have to install on the brake? like you have to do with a pedelec sensor?
My controller just expects a closed signal - a 5v signal grounded. If that signal is broken - i.e. the 5v no longer goes to ground then the controller stops putting out juice and wont start again until the cicuit closes again and it recves a new throttle input - i.e. the throttle is moved of the cruise control changed.
I have bought a cheapie brake lever off ebay and extracted the switch from it - it's a simple push to make switch - I'll get some photos later. Whilst the lever is not pressed, the small button is pressed in by the back of the brake lever - making the 5v go to ground. When the brake lever is pressed, it no longer presses the switch down and the cicuit is unmade. I'm looking at drilling my bikes lh brake lever to insert this switch into the back of it to enable it work the same way as the cheapie brake lever. I need to take some measure ments but it looks likes I can remove the reach adjustment screw and simply enlarge that hole and push the switch into that.
I'll take some picks when I start it this weekend - hopefully it will mak more sense then.
I have a 15amp fuse on my Tongxin based Brompton.
I tried a 10 amp but it kept blowing. I think you could safely come down to about 20amps.
As stated Tongxin motors have to be treated with some care. They don't like being over volted or have heavy currents run through them.
Regards
Jerry
I tried a 10 amp but it kept blowing. I think you could safely come down to about 20amps.
As stated Tongxin motors have to be treated with some care. They don't like being over volted or have heavy currents run through them.
Regards
Jerry
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Quick update.
I now have 150 miles on the bike - 7 commutes and a few "play" outings.
I have adapted the brake switch to my rear brake lever and expoxied it in place (will post photos later) - not connected up to the controller yet - I'll do a few miles on the road to ensure the epoxy is strong enough and the switch isn't going anywhere. I need to extend the cruise control wires next.
I've neatened up the battery pack wiring a bit and now taped the pack together (again photos coming).
The Turnigy 200w charger is not so good after running a storage mode on the pack - the charger got very hot and now it wont charge at more than 3amps :-( Not bad though - I'll keep it in the garage and use it to charge my 18650 cells I use for my flashlight hobby and the nicad/nimh packs I use for my R/C car. To replace it I now have a lovely iCharger 106b+ - awesome bit of kit and smaller than the turnigy even though it's more powerful at 250watts. I also love the geekiness of logging the charging to my laptop
I also have a Meanwell S-350-48 power supply on it's way from China so I can bulk charge the pack without splitting it - aim is to bulk charge on the bike to 49.8v then balance charge every 10 charges.
As far as range goes - I used full throttle all the way last week on my commute (19.5miles round trip), into a 20 mph head wind, with minimum pedalling and I put 15566mah back into the pack - that's 78% of the capacity of the pack- perfect
I have also bought a celllog 8m to keep an eye on the balance and on Sat I had a Turnigy Watt Meter delivered. Popped it on the bike last night for a quick run and I know why the bike feels so powerful - max amp draw was 16amps - that's 728watts peak! I tried to reprogram the controller to 12amps but the settings don't seem to take - I'll have a look at that later. Let's see how long the Tongxin lasts at 728 watts! (I'm not really bothered if it blows, I'd quite like to experiement with other motors. Cruising along at 20mph pulls about 8amps but 16mph only pulls 4 amps- you can really see the logrithmic effect of speed on power draw.
OK, so that's it for now - photos to follow soon.
I now have 150 miles on the bike - 7 commutes and a few "play" outings.
I have adapted the brake switch to my rear brake lever and expoxied it in place (will post photos later) - not connected up to the controller yet - I'll do a few miles on the road to ensure the epoxy is strong enough and the switch isn't going anywhere. I need to extend the cruise control wires next.
I've neatened up the battery pack wiring a bit and now taped the pack together (again photos coming).
The Turnigy 200w charger is not so good after running a storage mode on the pack - the charger got very hot and now it wont charge at more than 3amps :-( Not bad though - I'll keep it in the garage and use it to charge my 18650 cells I use for my flashlight hobby and the nicad/nimh packs I use for my R/C car. To replace it I now have a lovely iCharger 106b+ - awesome bit of kit and smaller than the turnigy even though it's more powerful at 250watts. I also love the geekiness of logging the charging to my laptop
I also have a Meanwell S-350-48 power supply on it's way from China so I can bulk charge the pack without splitting it - aim is to bulk charge on the bike to 49.8v then balance charge every 10 charges.
As far as range goes - I used full throttle all the way last week on my commute (19.5miles round trip), into a 20 mph head wind, with minimum pedalling and I put 15566mah back into the pack - that's 78% of the capacity of the pack- perfect
I have also bought a celllog 8m to keep an eye on the balance and on Sat I had a Turnigy Watt Meter delivered. Popped it on the bike last night for a quick run and I know why the bike feels so powerful - max amp draw was 16amps - that's 728watts peak! I tried to reprogram the controller to 12amps but the settings don't seem to take - I'll have a look at that later. Let's see how long the Tongxin lasts at 728 watts! (I'm not really bothered if it blows, I'd quite like to experiement with other motors
. Cruising along at 20mph pulls about 8amps but 16mph only pulls 4 amps- you can really see the logrithmic effect of speed on power draw.OK, so that's it for now - photos to follow soon.
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Hi AF2003, what controller are you using? I presume its an e-crazyman one if you are reprogramming it...
Be aware the battery current setting is not very precise it can be up to 5amps over the programmed setting, so setting 12amps in the s/w could mean the actual draw is 17...
So you either set the parameter lower or introduce resistance into the shunt by removing solder from the PCB joints or by cutting a 'nick' into the shunt to bring the actual draw in-line with the programmed level.
Also don't go mad with the phase current setting keep it below 2.5x the battery current and maybe in your case go down to 2x...
Be aware the battery current setting is not very precise it can be up to 5amps over the programmed setting, so setting 12amps in the s/w could mean the actual draw is 17...
So you either set the parameter lower or introduce resistance into the shunt by removing solder from the PCB joints or by cutting a 'nick' into the shunt to bring the actual draw in-line with the programmed level.
Also don't go mad with the phase current setting keep it below 2.5x the battery current and maybe in your case go down to 2x...
Hi - it's a Lyen mini monster controller - I've set the phase current to 30 amps (the lowest it can go) and set the current limit to 12amps. I tried setting it also to 10amps but it still didn't change when on the road.
Meh, I'll probably just leave it as it is and let it draw 16amps and use it as an experiment to see how Long the Tongxin lasts at 728watts
I never use it from a standing start and throttle up slowly anyhow.I think you'll be ok at 728 peak on a tongxin so long as your not making it do rediculous starts at full throttle.
Easing the power in is always a good start.
At least for everything invloved including yourself. Sounds like a good build and you have it all sorted.
Good setup on the bulk charging application. I still balance charge each time but I think if I go over 6 bricks of 6s I'd look at getting a Meanwell to bulk charge just for speed.
I'll make sure I don't use the storage mode on the Lipo charger then. I virtually have the same one. I never used to like it getting hot at 75 degrees C, So in the end brought 3 PC bay fans and placed them over the heak sinks to keep the air flowing around them.
Now it only heats up to 50c . I'm hoping that will keep it working a bit more reliably.
Get some pictures!
Easing the power in is always a good start.
At least for everything invloved including yourself. Sounds like a good build and you have it all sorted.
Good setup on the bulk charging application. I still balance charge each time but I think if I go over 6 bricks of 6s I'd look at getting a Meanwell to bulk charge just for speed.
I'll make sure I don't use the storage mode on the Lipo charger then. I virtually have the same one. I never used to like it getting hot at 75 degrees C, So in the end brought 3 PC bay fans and placed them over the heak sinks to keep the air flowing around them.
Now it only heats up to 50c . I'm hoping that will keep it working a bit more reliably.
Get some pictures!
Quick update on programming the controller.
Just tried the open source XPD software - found that 17a phase current and 7a current limit give me the desired 12a max reading on the Watt Meter - just as NRG suggested it might - cheers and showed a max watt pull of 545watts. Same top speed, just takes a little longer to get there. Hill climbing is affected but as I live on the only hill on my commute (and at the bottom of it) I'm not really that fussed. Wonder what kind of effect the lower amp limit will have on my range?
Just tried the open source XPD software - found that 17a phase current and 7a current limit give me the desired 12a max reading on the Watt Meter - just as NRG suggested it might - cheers
and showed a max watt pull of 545watts. Same top speed, just takes a little longer to get there. Hill climbing is affected but as I live on the only hill on my commute (and at the bottom of it) I'm not really that fussed. Wonder what kind of effect the lower amp limit will have on my range?Didn't go to work on it today as it was raining this morning so I've just been out on it to see what it's like to ride with the lower amp limit - verdict - success! Still accelerates well but it's now much harder to induce clutch slip (owners of Tongxins on throttle will know what I mean) and for the hills I encounter it will still pull me up them @ 15 mph no pedalling (this is down on the 17mph previous but still fine with me).
These are the numbers from my ride - 7 miles full throttle where possible with gentle pedalling - just enough to be border line building up a sweat - i.e. my commute to work exertion (I pedal harder on the way home).:-
7.09 miles covered
24 minutes
17.8mph avg speed
2.716Ah used from pack
128Wh used
12.05A peak Amp draw
573Watts peak Watt draw
By my calculation that gives 20.8miles range from the 10Ah pack (sticking to the 80% max drain rule) and the bike consumes, at top speed with easy pedaling, 18.05Watts per mile.
I want to do a test where I drop the speed to 16mph and see what my theoretical range would be on that - a quick previous run suggests about a 2.5Ah draw with easy pedaling - that's 7Watts per mile - 50mile pack range! Really will have to test it one evening - if I can resist using full throttle!
Oh, and yes I know, I need to post more photos. Might wait until my carbon fibre battery box is ready though
These are the numbers from my ride - 7 miles full throttle where possible with gentle pedalling - just enough to be border line building up a sweat - i.e. my commute to work exertion (I pedal harder on the way home).:-
7.09 miles covered
24 minutes
17.8mph avg speed
2.716Ah used from pack
128Wh used
12.05A peak Amp draw
573Watts peak Watt draw
By my calculation that gives 20.8miles range from the 10Ah pack (sticking to the 80% max drain rule) and the bike consumes, at top speed with easy pedaling, 18.05Watts per mile.
I want to do a test where I drop the speed to 16mph and see what my theoretical range would be on that - a quick previous run suggests about a 2.5Ah draw with easy pedaling - that's 7Watts per mile - 50mile pack range! Really will have to test it one evening - if I can resist using full throttle!
Oh, and yes I know, I need to post more photos. Might wait until my carbon fibre battery box is ready though
A few more photos as promised - no commentary atm - I'll add some when I get the time - I will say now though that the wattmeter isn't a permanent addition!:-
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