News: Surging costs of NiMh batteries

[rsscott]

Not necessarily new news for us here on the forum, but an interesting read on ExtraEnergy:

In spring of 2007 something happened that was not imaginable some years ago––raw material prices of nickel, aluminum, copper, and cadmium rose significantly, resulting in a price increase of nickel-cadmium (NiCD) and nickel-metall-hydride (NiMH) batteries. Manufacturers are forced to raise prices dramatically. As a result, there are lithium batteries around at even lower price than NiMH batteries.

Nickel Batteries more expensive - ExtraEnergy.org

Presentation by Hannes Neupert

 

[flecc]

Nice bit of hyping in that ExtraEnergy report though Russ, the usual lithium promotion, carefully avoiding the fact that they can't do the job very well under high load conditions.

I'm sure the metal price effect is being deliberately exaggerated for commercial advantage anyway, since some suppliers have been able to maintain old prices without any trouble while others have doubled theirs.

I don't think the small amounts of metal in these cells would have much of an effect in reality, and certainly couldn't double the price, since in relation to the actual metal price rises, that would mean that metal was virtually the only cost!

No labour, transport or any other overheads? I think not.
.

 

[painter]

li battery

50 cycles will not sell me an li battery unless i buy a charger .is this true painter

 

[flecc]

Not as far as I know painter, the only note I've seen is that they are limited in supply. However, you cannot use a Li-ion charger on an NiMh pack and vice versa, so is this what they meant, that you must have the NiMh charger if you've previously only had Li-ion batteries?
.

 

[Ian]

50 cycles will not sell me an li battery unless i buy a charger .is this true painter

I recently bought a NiMh battery from 50cycles without having to buy a charger. Their batteries page lists batteries separately, but currently no stock of NiMh.
As Flecc has stated either type of battery must only be used with it's specific charger, to interchange chargers could damage the battery and be dangerous.

 

[painter]

painter

5o cycles lithium battery £250 charger £50 £300 out of stock if ordered separately i dont want a charger just the battery click on 50 cycles batteries

 

[Ian]

5o cycles lithium battery £250 charger £50 £300 out of stock if ordered separately i dont want a charger just the battery click on 50 cycles batteries

I'd give 'em some grief painter. Them being unable to supply a basic spare part such as a battery is the kind of service you might expect at the cheap end of the market but not at the quality end.

 

[painter]

batteries

thanks ian roll on wisper new spec my name will be on the list no more brake judder bent keys punctures etc etc

 

[Ian]

thanks ian roll on wisper new spec my name will be on the list no more brake judder bent keys punctures etc etc

Don't count your chickens painter, the Ezee bikes may not be perfect, but they are well established, well proven and have a good reputation worldwide.. in short they're a tough act to beat.

 

[flecc]

Don't count your chickens painter, the Ezee bikes may not be perfect, but they are well established, well proven and have a good reputation worldwide.. in short they're a tough act to beat.

I'll second that. They may have some bugs but all the essentials are in place. As my projects have shown, the basis is sound, the minor flaws are easily corrected, and many improvements can easily be made.
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[ITSPETEINIT]

Battery and Charger

5o cycles lithium battery £250 charger £50 £300 out of stock if ordered separately i dont want a charger just the battery click on 50 cycles batteries

When I read that on 50Cycles site I thought they meant - "out of stock if ordered separately FROM A BIKE".
In other words , they were keeping the Batteries and Chargers they had in stock for the new bikes and only had enough for those.
Peter

 

[HarryB]

50 cycles will not sell me an li battery unless i buy a charger .is this true painter

Can I ask why you are buying a Li-on battery? Is it a replacement or in addition? Has your original battery died?

 

[flecc]

5o cycles lithium battery £250 charger £50 £300 out of stock if ordered separately i dont want a charger just the battery click on 50 cycles batteries

It says battery and charger set, so maybe those have been supplied that way, possibly boxed as such for the new bikes.

I read it as just the separate batteries out of stock, but that's usually just a temporary situation. Li-ion batteries deteriorate from the moment they are manufactured, so can't be kept in stock for protracted periods. Hence ordering frequently in small quantities, bringing the risk of momentary out of stock situations. I've seen several of these happen, and view it as good that they are careful in that way rather than supplying stock that's already lost a chunk of it's life.

I'm sure a call to 50cycles will elicit an estimate of when they will be arriving.
.

 

[painter]

Can I ask why you are buying a Li-on battery? Is it a replacement or in addition? Has your original battery died?

Harry its a replacement after 8 months hard work 4000 mils its only doing 15 miles i want to get back up to30 miles new iwould put the cat in with the pidgeons when i said wisper my torq is the older one withall the bugs

 

[painter]

Harry its a replacement after 8 months hard work 4000 mils its only doing 15 miles i want to get back up to30 miles new iwould put the cat in with the pidgeons when i said wisper my torq is the older one withall the bugs

correction 4000 kilometers = 3000miles my torq is the best thing since sliced bread ithink all the bugs have been sorted on the new ones

 

[flecc]

correction 4000 kilometers = 3000miles

You can change the speedo to miles if you want to Painter.

If you're not sure, it means removing the battery and replacing it to set it back to zero factory setting. Then a press on the reset button flips between km and miles. With that set, press the recessed grey button on the rear to change to the wheel size setting and complete the sequence.
.

 

[HarryB]

Harry its a replacement after 8 months hard work 4000 mils its only doing 15 miles i want to get back up to30 miles new iwould put the cat in with the pidgeons when i said wisper my torq is the older one withall the bugs

I am asking because I am keen to get an idea of the life of a Li-on battery. I am assuming when you say only get 15 miles you are running your Torq restricted and the range has halved in 8 months. How many miles do you do a day? I do 20 miles a day (during the working week) and have done since august. I am on the second battery so far, the first failed under warranty.

 

[allotmenteer]

I have to say I'm struggling to find a use for my lithium battery. I'm using Nimh with a SLA booster pack (until I source a 36V Nimh) in preference over the lithium one.

My advice is go with Nimh, it's tried and tested. Nimh does weigh more but in my case if I was worried about that I could lose a few pounds of fat (I reckon I could drop 3/4 of a stone no problem) or chuck a couple of items off the bike / change a couple of components for lighter better ones.

With Nimh at least I don't have the situation where I'm pedalling the heavy ebike around with no power because the lithium battery has wimped out on a long hill. And I don't have to worry about it burning my house down if I leave it charging unattended.

I should probably sell the lithium battery soon before it loses capacity. Anyone interested? (I must say I've done a good job of selling it haven't I?)

Paul

 

[Ian]

Harry its a replacement after 8 months hard work 4000 mils its only doing 15 miles i want to get back up to30 miles new iwould put the cat in with the pidgeons when i said wisper my torq is the older one withall the bugs

Don't worry about cats and pidgeons Painter, theres plenty of that goes on around here. I should get on to 50 cycles though and find out when a battery will be available because as I said before, it's a pretty basic spare part, but only available from them, and unlike the situation with NiMh there is no worldwide shortage to blame it on.

I am asking because I am keen to get an idea of the life of a Li-on battery.

Harry, I recently bought a used Sprint that had done 5000 miles, it was about 15 months old and had been stored for a couple of months. When I aquired it the Li battery was totally shot but the previous owner said it was managing about 8 east anglian miles on a charge when last used, which is roughly in line with Painters halved range after 3000 miles.

Ian.

 

[Ian]

My advice is go with Nimh, it's tried and tested. Nimh does weigh more but in my case if I was worried about that I could lose a few pounds of fat (I reckon I could drop 3/4 of a stone no problem) or chuck a couple of items off the bike / change a couple of components for lighter better ones.

I agree Paul, I have 3 NiMh batteries between the 2 bikes, one of them being the original Lithium battery from the Sprint re-celled with NiMh and all work well, the oldest exhibiting no reduction in range after 1 years use. They are each about 1kg heavier than their Li-Mg equivalents but my personal weight fluctuates by more than that so it's not noticable.