Opinions Please.....?

Deleted member 4366 · May 2, 2015

Don't forget that you have to pay extra for the unrestricted Burisch controller if that's important for you.

Another thing, bikes with 5 levels of assist with a LCD panel are better than ones with 3 levels and LED panel, which are a lot better than ones without any panel. In other words, the control system can make a big difference to your riding experience. It isn't only the motor and battery that are important.

Deleted member 4366 · May 2, 2015

Branded cells will always be better, but you have to pay extra for them. You could get a 15Ah battery with unbranded cells for the same price as a 10Ah one with branded cells. Which is best now?

stevenatleven · May 2, 2015

Hi Alan

i am in a similiar position to you, ie in Scotland and justifying spending the money. Anyway just to confuse you have you seen this,its got lots of great
reviews, in your budget, mtb style and looks good

http://expedition-bikes.co.uk/product/e-bike/electric-e-bike/

tapash · May 2, 2015

Tbh before buriesch my first choice was expedition. But seems there is hardly any difference between the 2 except for you need to pay £90 extra...

On top of that I hardly managed to find a review of expedition...

tapash · May 2, 2015

Alan103 said:
I initially liked the look of the Burisch, when I saw it on eBay for £799, then I checked out their website, saw it for £659 and joined the forum to see if I could get some feedback on the quality or a review or two, with limited response, that kinda put me off a little but willing to keep my options open. I liked the Sport TS, more so on price, but the thought of no throttle at all puts me off a little. The Sport CD is out of stock at the moment but have been informed they are waiting on new kit with different spec and I've decided to see what it'll be like before I make any decisions.
Both Woosh and Burisch have answered all my questions pretty quickly which I think is a bit of a positive.
I see you also mentioned the Oxygen Emate MTB, I was seriously considering the 11AH version for £999 but its out of stock and they said they wont be getting any more in, a bit of a disappointment tbh.
I'm like you, its a lot of money for a bike and I've been informed on here that anything under £1000 is pretty much the same on components and its all down to how you want the motor to work.

Exacty!! £1000 is too much. Thats why I was looking as Sport TS which is going for £599 now till tomorrow. They say it will be £749 4 May onwards.I am very tempted. Only the Throttle is disappointment. Not sure if it would be a huge thing on a medium hilly road!!! And I wish Oxygen would bring back 11Ah model. anyway, its all about confusion...and ends in disappointment...

trex · May 2, 2015

tapash said:
...
Only the Throttle is disappointment. ..

a torque sensor is a replacement for the throttle, except that a torque sensor costs more than 10 times the price of a thumb throttle.
There is only one other popular bike with a torque sensor in your price range, that's the Momentum.

tapash · May 2, 2015

trex said:
a torque sensor is a replacement for the throttle, except that a torque sensor costs more than 10 times the price of a thumb throttle.
There is only one other popular bike with a torque sensor in your price range, that's the Momentum.

So, woosh sport TS is better bike than Buriesch in terms of components, is that what you are saying? I guess woosh is including a branded battery. Also considering current going price £599.

trex · May 2, 2015

I have not ridden the Burisch, so I can't comment. The good point about the torque sensor is that the ride is much more akin to riding a normal bike, like having bionic legs, much more enjoyable and power delivery is both logical and natural.

tapash · May 2, 2015

trex said:
I have not ridden the Burisch, so I can't comment. The good point about the torque sensor is that the ride is much more akin to riding a normal bike, like having bionic legs, much more enjoyable and power delivery is both logical and natural.

Well,

Its not that i don't cycle, Usually by the time I reach office i am sweaty and super exhausted after cycling for 11Miles each way. .

I don't want to feel that, and thats why I am leaning towards a electric bike instead of my 2 year old hybrid.

Not only I want to enjoy my ride but I also want to feel relaxed and enjoy my rest of the day after cycling 22 Miles too. I know, it can be personal opinion, but just because I am in such dilemma, do you think Woosh Sport TS can help in my situation even without having the throttle?

Edit: Another option to consider for the same price as Woosh Sport TS is GreenEdge CS2 http://www.e-bikesdirect.co.uk/Item/Brands/Green_Edge/Greenedge_CS2__Electric_Mountain_Bike.aspx
It comes with Branded Samsung battery, It also has thumb throttle, 3 pedal asssistance levels. Except it has 6 gears. But another Pros is it weights only 19Kg. thats 2-3 kg less than Woosh Sport TS.

Any opinion on GreenEdge CS2??

trex · May 2, 2015

I haven't ridden the CS2 - can't comment either. Generally speaking, the weight of the bike depends on the weight of motor, battery, gearset and accessories. both the Burisch and the CS2 are similarly equiped, motor, battery, suspension fork, gearing, brakes, propstand - so they should not differ that much on weight.

tapash · May 2, 2015

......and about my throttle query on TS?

trex · May 2, 2015

the torque sensor's output is wired to the throttle input. For all purpose, it acts as a throttle, you operate it with your legs instead of your thumb and you can probably unplug the torque sensor and plug in a thumb throttle. If you don't want a torque sensor, don't buy the TS and then the CS2 is your cheapest option but I think the Vita is equally good value for money and you get the support from a vendor on this forum.

tapash · May 2, 2015

Thanks Trex for your patience
I am guessing you have experience with torque sensor bike. Have you ridden on a hilly Road? How does it compare with throttle when hill climbing? It's a general question and not on any particular CS2 or TS...

trex · May 2, 2015

on hills, the TS does not have the grunt of the Big Bear. The motor on the TS is a 120mm unit, the BPM on the Big Bear 180mm. Also, the controller on the TS gives 14A max, the Big Bear 20A. The battery on the TS has 9AH, the Big Bear has 15AH. The difference is clear. If you have hills more than 10% in gradient, then it can be tiring climbing them with the TS.
The reason to choose the TS is entirely down to the way power is delivered. Otherwise, it's no better or worse than the CS or the Burisch in terms of speed and power.

Deleted member 4366 · May 2, 2015

A couple of things you need to know about the Woosh Sport TS in case you haven't ridden one. For normal riding, it has one of the nicest power algorithms on any bike I've tried. The power comes in really smoothly. Unfortunately, nothing is perfect and the shortcomings show as soon as you get a steep hill. The motor is not particularly powerful, so it probably wouldn't suit a heavy person or anybody who has steep hills and can't pedal hard. The second thing is that the torque sensor is in the motor. The chain sprocket is attached to a plate that has springs between it and the motor so that it can move relative to the wheel. When you get on a steep hill, the springs bottom-out and you get a sort of banging with each pedal stroke as the springs take up the tension and then bottom out. It gives a feeling similar to when you have a loose crank on a square taper shaft. In effect, the whole chain is on a spring. Once you underdstand what's happening, it's not so bad, but I can image some people getting off to try and figure out what's wrong. If you don't have steep hills, you probably won't notice these problems and the bike is otherwise very nice.

2Lazy · May 3, 2015

trex said:
a torque sensor is a replacement for the throttle, except that a torque sensor costs more than 10 times the price of a thumb throttle.
There is only one other popular bike with a torque sensor in your price range, that's the Momentum.

I wouldn't say that a torque sensor is a replacement for a throttle. Quite the opposite. It requires effort from the rider and the power from the motor is only proportional to the effort you put in. If anything a cadence sensor is a better replacement for throttle as they offer full power from the motor for almost no effort i.e. just waggle your legs around and you get full power from the motor.

trex said:
I have not ridden the Burisch, so I can't comment. The good point about the torque sensor is that the ride is much more akin to riding a normal bike, like having bionic legs, much more enjoyable and power delivery is both logical and natural.

I wouldn't say the riding experience on a torque sensor bike is better either. It comes down to personal preference and what you want out of the bike. For instance I wanted a bike that could at times be ridden almost like a scooter on throttle alone or with very little peddling effort. It is for that reason that I chose a bike with a powerful hub motor, cadence sensor and throttle. I did try some torque sensor bikes (crank drive and hub drive) and they weren't for me. Or at least not for my daily commuter bike. I may buy a second ebike in the not too distant future, an MTB with Bosch or Yamaha crank drive, specifically for off-road use, but that's another story and a completely different use case.

2Lazy · May 3, 2015

tapash said:
Ok, Lets get to the main discussion....
So I am leaning more towards Burisch in based on following features:

20.5KG (Manageable)
SR Suntour suspension forks
Adjustable handlebar stem
and the price £649
Although Website does not say any details of pedal assist & Throttle.

I badly wanted Oxygen Emate MTB, it was available for £999 on some websites but it seems OOS at all places.

This has already been mentioned but I think an online forum can only offer some general advice and perhaps which makes and models to consider or avoid. I know your location makes it difficult but there really is no substitute for test riding the bikes.

I tested about 15 different bikes, driving around 500 miles to six different ebike dealers, before I made a decision. And even then I agonised for days before I made my final decision. I could give you my opinion on each of those 15 bikes but it's all subjective. For instance another poster on this thread who owns a Cyclotricity Stealth 1000w has given it a good review. When I tested one, however, I thought it felt like a really cheap and unrefined contraption. I certainly wouldn't reccomend it as I think there are better bikes available for the same money or less. But that just shows that it's different strokes for different folks.

I also notice that many of your requirements are very similar to what mine were when I began looking at ebikes - mtb, lightweight, stealthy, price etc. as it turned out I was prepared to compromise on some of those things because other things e.g. power, hill climbing, build quality, and throttle - were more important. I was only able to discover that by testing a range bikes and then drawing up a shortlist. The thread I created, should you be interested, can be found here -
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/mtb-or-hybrid-with-full-throttle-up-to-£1500-ish-for-short-commute.20296/

FWIW for a bike in your price range, to fit your requirements, I think the Kudos Tornado or Woosh Zeypher-B or Woosh Sport would be good choices. Or perhaps one of the Roodog bikes (Avatar, Striker, Explorer). Only thing to note on the Kudos bikes is that they don't have a full throttle. The Burisch looks like a really interesting proposition but I have not seen any reviews. If you get one I'd be really interested to read your views on it.

tapash · May 3, 2015

2Lazy said:
This has already been mentioned but I think an online forum can only offer some general advice and perhaps which makes and models to consider or avoid. I know your location makes it difficult but there really is no substitute for test riding the bikes.

I tested about 15 different bikes, driving around 500 miles to six different ebike dealers, before I made a decision. And even then I agonised for days before I made my final decision. I could give you my opinion on each of those 15 bikes but it's all subjective. For instance another poster on this thread who owns a Cyclotricity Stealth 1000w has given it a good review. When I tested one, however, I thought it felt like a really cheap and unrefined contraption. I certainly wouldn't reccomend it as I think there are better bikes available for the same money or less. But that just shows that it's different strokes for different folks.

I also notice that many of your requirements are very similar to what mine were when I began looking at ebikes - mtb, lightweight, stealthy, price etc. as it turned out I was prepared to compromise on some of those things because other things e.g. power, hill climbing, build quality, and throttle - were more important. I was only able to discover that by testing a range bikes and then drawing up a shortlist. The thread I created, should you be interested, can be found here -
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/mtb-or-hybrid-with-full-throttle-up-to-£1500-ish-for-short-commute.20296/

FWIW for a bike in your price range, to fit your requirements, I think the Kudos Tornado or Woosh Zeypher-B or Woosh Sport would be good choices. Or perhaps one of the Roodog bikes (Avatar, Striker, Explorer). Only thing to note on the Kudos bikes is that they don't have a full throttle. The Burisch looks like a really interesting proposition but I have not seen any reviews. If you get one I'd be really interested to read your views on it.

Hi 2Lazy
Thanks for your input. It's great to see you have come up with your conclusion in your thread.

There are few folks have bought and sold Burisch. So far this is the most extensive review I can find.
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/index.php?threads/Burisch-offroad-electric-bike,-new-for-£649-on-ebay.11833/

I like Zephyre-b folder although its 22kg. but my concern is it might get stolen as I always park it outside my office.

Opinions Please.....?

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