Road Charges- Pay as you drive

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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And is simple and would work. How do I know? Well, I lived in an era when much of this was done, before Dr Beeching, another Government appointed "expert" from industry, decided to demolish much of our rail network, shifting most goods to the roads.

Although few rail containers were around, in those happy empty road days, goods, loose or containerised, went direct to a far bigger network of railheads. There, specialised vehicles like the Scammell "Horse" three wheel tractors were ready to hitch up articulated trailers and tow them around town delivering to addressees. Those Scammells were little truck type tractors, not very fast but sufficiently so for around town. Very manouverable and low geared, they just used a Ford Ten car engine so were economical, and an equivalent today with electric would be great.

Why aren't we already going back to this type of system? It has to be a combination of fear and incompetence on the part of those who rule. Unfortunately the nanny state they've created has infected the creators and all of them live in constant fear of messing up, sitting on their hands and watching out behind them, living by a principle of "if I do nothing, I've done nothing to be blamed for".

Only very few have the courage to act, and they are constantly attacked at every step, so the incentive to give up is strong. The perfect example is Ken Livingstone. Regardless of his politics, under the old GLC he introduced a "Fares Fair" policy that really worked, reducing congestion, increasing bus and tube usage etc, and very popular with most Londoners. The outcome was that a government jealous of his success where they had failed and opposed to his politics abolished the GLC, so destroying his success.

Fortunately he was made of stronger stuff than most politicians and eventually we managed to get him back as Mayor of a reconstituted GLC and he's repeating his success with the Congestion Charge, a huge increase in Cycling with less car usage, increased public transport usage, and free travel for all under 16s to inculcate the public transport habit.

As all who read newspapers and listen to news reports will know, his reward is to be constantly attacked by ever watchful politicians and newspapers opposed to his views and seeking any chance to undermine by highlighting any possible mistake he makes, all presumably wanting to maintain a stasis where nothing ever improves.

They all seem to have forgotten the old saying, one has to break eggs to make omelettes. Progress is never perfect, and that's why courage is so necessary, the willingness to take risks. But our nanny state brigade just can't bring themselves to do that, so we continue to decay as a country.

N.B. I assure you that this posting is not politically motivated. At various times I've been voting Ken in and at the same time voting elsewhere in the opposite political direction. My support is purely for a man who has the courage to act decisively and suffer any opposition resolutely.
 
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rsscott

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Aug 17, 2006
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I think the problem now is the 'system'. We have built up such a huge global industry and economic system where corporate interests take precedent that unravelling it now would be almost impossible....unless. My own view though is that we will have to change and it will be forced upon us by energy constraints. The big question is whether we all have the guts to accept this and transition accordingly or whether we will take the path of resource wars as we have started to see with the Iraq war.

We will regret dismantling the rail network and the irony is that it was all done with profit in mind.
 

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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The big question is whether we all have the guts to accept this and transition accordingly - - -

We will regret dismantling the rail network and the irony is that it was all done with profit in mind.
That's it exactly Russ, the need for courage that I've highlighted.

Of course there are some weak willed attempts to start repairing the damage to the rail network. The high speed channel tunnel line, but decades after our neighbours did it, and the Crossrail project for London which still hasn't started.

Otherwise we suffer not only with weak political will, but also a timid and nimby public. We saw this with Central Rail's project for a line from the Tunnel, around London and heading into the North of England to breath life into the Northern economy. The nimbys leapt on that immediately and crushed the life out of it. In France when a new rail line or airport are proposed for a region, towns vie with each other to ensure they get the airport or have the new road routed by their town. So different, and indicating that we get the public servants that we deserve, suffering the consequences thereafter.
 
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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Roughly on those lines Scott, but with a change from the way in which we all seem to be continually on the move. We stopped being hunter gatherers partly in order to avoid that need, but in the last hundred plus years have gone backwards.

It's the old story of using a facility just because it's available, without regard for whether it's a sensible thing to do. After all, our lives are finite, do we really want to spend such a large part of them travelling instead of enjoying the better aspects of life?

We don't have a democracy of course, it's an elective dictatorship when we elect others who are then free to dictate. True democracy was only just about possible with a tiny population as when the Greeks invented it, but we've reached a point in technical advancement where a sophisticated type of true democracy is now possible. Here's my long considered model for it.

The election of representatives in the present manner, but with their powers limited to the details of existing policy. The population able to vote online to introduce new proposed policies, or changes to existing policy, subject to the following:

1) All registered members of the public regardless of age able to submit proposed policies or changes online.

2) The top most proposed policies or changes selected for presentation online for voting on acceptance or rejection, subject to the following:

To access a vote on a policy or change, it would be necessary to correctly answer some questions about that subject. The questions would be a random presentation to avoid prior knowledge.

The purpose of that restriction would be to eliminate the influence of votes based on ignorance. This would not be a restriction on democracy since everyone has access to education, further education, internet facilities etc, so could gain the necessary knowledge in order to widen the issues they were able to vote on.

Policies or changes then adopted by the population could be fine tuned by the elected representatives, but they could not cancel or ignore them. A second chamber could be a safeguard against attempts to do that.

Under this method, newer forms of transport could be promoted by the population at large and voted into policy, with voting only by those knowing something about the subject. For example, an issue concerning electric bikes would be strongly influenced by those with knowledge of the issue, rather than them being ignored by the overwhelming majority who know nothing of the issue and don't care either under the present system.

Vive la revolution!
 
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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Yes, I'm a Cromwell fan, big mistake back then I think, though partly his fault.

We can dream, but change is something we're particularly bad at in this country.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,848
30,402
Yes, I'm a Cromwell fan, big mistake back then I think, though partly his fault.

We can dream, but change is something we're particularly bad at in this country.
This post seems out of place, but it was a reply to someone's post long since removed. I would delete it if I could but this new forum no longer allows that over time.
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