Should I consider alterntaives to the stepthru Kalkhoff Agattu/Raleigh Dover

[10mph]

I am new and need advice. Basically I need to:

• ride occasional distances between 5 miles and 40 miles ( I don't mind carrying an extra battery for range when necessary.)
• I want to maintain a speed close to but not exceeding 10mph
• I need help up hills and after 10 miles when I tend to get rather tired
• it must have rear wheel drive, not front wheel drive
• a standard front wheel, (which I can remove and replace with another with a tyre of moderate width eg 25-32mm if necessary)
• I need to touch the ground with both toes while on seat. A 53cm Aggatu looks to be marginal since the seat suspension appears to prevent it being lowered as much as I would like. But on the other hand I liked the riding position etc and am not sure I would find a smaller frame to my liking. Inside leg (crouch-floor) is 86cm (32 in) with shoes foot flat on floor

I want to ask whether there are any alternatives which I should be considering to the Stepthru Kalkhoff Agattu/ Raleigh Dover. I have had a very short test ride on the Kalkhoff Agattu and like its steadyness and precise controlability at low speeds which is important to me. The low power mode should suit me very well till I hit a big hill. The new big battery sounds to be what I should go for.

(newby post moved here on suggestion from Eddieo)

 

[eddieo]

I think you need to try a hub motor bike with throttle before you make your mind up..They are very different.

Wisper 705 SE step through, worth a look (we have one) same running gear and powerful 14 Ah battery as their very popular 905 SE? They also have the Alpino range as well offering step through frames

 

[tillson]

As eddio says, it's well worth trying a good quality hub motor bike to compare the two systems. If you decide that a crank drive is for you, there are quite a few alternatives available, e-motion is one example which uses the same Panasonic system as Kalkhoff and Raleigh.

From what people say, it would be worth a trip to on-bike, they stock quality hub motor brands such as Wisper and Ezee and also crank drives from e-motion. You will then know which system suits you the best. All you have to do then is decide on a brand.

 

[GORDONAL]

Consider E-motion

Hi as 2 previous posters state try /consider the Emotion from On Bike I am delighted with our 2 , owned now for 18 months and totally trouble-free . We have "done" 1300 miles(laughable to some) and provide a comfortable stress free stable ride , with the ability to climb steep hills and still have a genuine 25-30 min. range. Alan

 

[overlander]

Without sounding like a broken record, i tried numerous bikes and systems. For me the Trek Fx+ was a perfect blend of quality and more importantly for me the frame sizes were perfect. My big bug bear about electric bikes is the restrictive frame sizes.

 

[eddieo]

chap seems to want a step through, and Kalkhoff have a range of sizes and wisper have the bigger framed Alpino bikes for the taller rider as well....

 

[overlander]

Hi eddieo,

The trek comes in step thru, they call it the FX-wsd but they only have 3 frame sizes 15, 17.5 and 20".

 

[jac]

hi you could look at flyer i-sy bought from germany i bought one last year and i have had no problems with it a small neat bike comfortable ride here is an example

Flyer iSY Eco, 20 Zoll, 10 Ah, BikeTec, 2.190,00 € UVP on eBay (end time 09-Jan-11 19:07:14 GMT)

jim

 

[NRG]

A to B magazine gave the new Raleigh Velo bikes a very good write up. They are due later this year and it may be worth holding out for a test ride as they seem to come in at a very competitive price and improve in some areas on the traditional Chinese hub powered bike approach, see the latest edition...

PS: why no front wheel drive? Rear wheel drive limits the gear range available to you.

 

[10mph]

Many thanks for all suggestions.

I should have added to my list of requirements I need a front wheel not smaller than 26 ins. Also I need access on the left side of front hub for a thin mechanism between the fork and the hub, so wheels with disc brakes on the left front will probably give problems which prevent use of my mechanism.

eddieo, tillson, Gordonal: There is a shop 6 miles away with some Wispers, so I will go there first and have a close look. But thanks also for the suggestion of a visit to On-Bike. At 60 mile distance it would be worth a trip if they have a number brands available to compare and actually try out.

The front wheel disc brake rules out the Wisper 750 se city judging from the picture and spec. The 905eco looks as if it might do with a front wheel change to a thinner tyre, but it is not really step thru, and so more leg raise will be required when mounting/dismounting. I will have to try it.

The Wisper Alpinos appear to have front hub motor drive as well as front discs so will not match my specific requirements - I must have a fairly ordinary front wheel arranagement - at present on my "push" bike I use 26 inch X 32mm an old michelin world tour tyre with a plastic insert between inner tube and tyre to prevent punctures and this is ideal. I might need to fit this to whatever e-bike I buy. I am not placing any restrictions on the back wheel/tyre so that is why I can only consider rear wheel drive.

I am not concerned about brake performance since my required max speed of 10 mph does not place great demands on the brakes, and I wont let the speed get up on steep downhills so there is time for the heat to dispate.

The Trek FX Ride+ FSD 19 inch frame I think may be the model suggested by Overlander. There seem to be many Trek outlets, but the one I visited a few weeks ago could not help with e-bikes. I will have to find one that has this bike available for inspection/fitting, and may be a short trial.

Small wheel size rules out jac's suggestion of the flyer iSY Eco from Germany - the wheels look much too small. (also I would be somewhat apprehensive buying from a German ebayer, such an expensive item)

NRG mentions the forthcoming Raleigh Velo-City. However, looking at the pictures on the small on-line preview pages of A to B magazine I think this has the motor on the front hub and is therefore not suitable for my application, which requires a front wheel which rotates completely freely. I am even concerned about the front hub dynamo on the Agattu/Dover models and I am prepared not to use the dynamo or replace the front wheel if it causes significant varying drag on the front wheel. Note, except for emergency stops I dont use my front brakes on my push bike since this obviously affects the freely rotating front wheel driven round only by the road.

 

[overlander]

Only certain Trek dealers do the FX + range and Trek will not compromise on this. They are obsessed by warranty and pre-delivery quality hence why you cannot buy a Trek over the internet. They insist you visit the dealer to ensure the bike fits and more importantly the bike is fully built for you. Right or wrong that is their policy but from my point of view good as they forced me to find my local dealer and i now have local support.

 

[brucehawsker]

Declaring a Commercial Interest

You might like to consider our (Big Cat Electric Big Cat Electric | Electric Bike > Home) step through hub motor driven bike with u brakes. PM me if you would like further details. Special prices for the discerning forum members!!!

Thx,

Bruce

 

[NRG]

The velo was praised in particular for it's very free running hub, shame you can't use one. What is this mechanism you have to fit on the front wheel?

 

[thunderblue]

Seat post

I replaced the suspension post with a standard post - my inside leg is 29" and it is just great.

 

[10mph]

As a newby I appreciate all the helpful comments from experienced e-bikers.

Yesterday I found a dealer with a Trek Ride+ and saw both a 17.5in frame WSD step thru model and a model with a 20in frame with a cross bar. The 20in will fit me very well with seat near minimum, and as overlander suggested a range of sizes are available. The dealer can get the 20in as a step thru WSD model. Only the 17.5in WSD model was available for a demo ride but I did not take a ride there and then, since I saw some drawbacks compared with the Kalkhoff Agattu - At £1900 about 10% more expensive, No suspension (although this is a nice to have for bumpy roads and potholes rather than mandatory.) However, most concerning I could not get a clear idea of the battery capacity - the dealer could not find it in his literature. I think I might have to get a second battery to ensure 40 miles range, and that will add £400.

At another dealer I looked at the range of Wisper models and this confirmed that all models have restrictions on the front wheel that will prevent use of my mechanism. He also showed me the Raleigh Dover, which appears identical to the Agattu which I have ridden, except he tells me that the gearing is very slightly different. (I cant remember which way - but it should not make much difference.) More importantly this stepthru Dover is only available with a 17.5 inch frame. While I can obviously ride it, I think a larger frame would better suit me. The dealer had not heard of the new larger capacity 468Wh Kalkhoff battery being available for the Dover, but he is checking. Again I did not take the test ride since at the moment the Agattu seems best for me.

Finally yesterday, I read the relevant parts of Electric Bicycles by Henshaw and Peace in a book shop (nice comfy armchair provided). This book seems to confirm to me that the Panasonic crank driven system is ideal for my application and will give excellent range.

Brucehawsker: I have PM'd you for details.

NRG: for details of the mechanism which I use see Jones Counter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

thunderblue: yes a non-suspension seat post does seem to be offered as a "downgrade" option with the Agattu. I have only twice ridden a bike with suspension: I really liked the smooth ride. Especially less pain in the wrists from vibration.

 

[overlander]

Hi 10mph,
There is no way you would get 40 miles out of the Trek with one battery, i thought you meant 20 miles charge then 20 miles back. Sorry if i picked you up wrong, I would also be very surprised if the Agattu could achieve this as well in real word conditions but i could be wrong. Ohh forgot to add its a 6.4 Ahr battery. To be exact off the battery 40.7V 6.4 Ahr 260.48 Wh.

 

[overlander]

You will find the Trek is a half way house between an electric bike and normal bike. What i mean by that it cycles fine without power but to achieve even 20 miles with one battery you would certainly have to put a good bit off effort into your journey. For me that was ideal as i wanted to get fit so i do most the work on the flat and let the motor help on the hills but it certainly aint a bike to sit on and breeze along with no effort mile after mile it just flattens the hills.

PS should add as it will have a significant effect on range, these figures are based on my height 6ft 4.5" and pushing 19 stone at one point. So i guess if your small and weigh 11 stone for example you might get further )

 

[NRG]

NRG: for details of the mechanism which I use see Jones Counter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Ah! Thank you now I understand

 

[tillson]

The 18 Ah battery from Kalkhoff should give you your 40 mile range, especially if you don't intend modifying the ratio of chain wheel to rear sprocket. When new, my 10Ah battery could achieve 50 miles in low assist mode. That range soon falls away though as the battery is used/ ages. An 18 Ah, "should" give you a 40 mile range for longer, but how much longer is anyones guess.

 

[eddieo]

Declaring a Commercial Interest

You might like to consider our (Big Cat Electric Big Cat Electric | Electric Bike > Home) step through hub motor driven bike with u brakes. PM me if you would like further details. Special prices for the discerning forum members!!!

Thx,

Bruce

Why is it is Spain where presumably theses bike originate price is nearer £1100 and by the time the get to the UK and had a name change the price has inflated to £1650 Also a lot of money for a bike with a 10 amp battery and 6 speed me finks

here is the earlier thread:

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/7311-big-cat-e-bikes.html