Storck Raddar Multitask SE -V- BH Emotion Neo Xtrem. My personal experience.

[Deleted member 4366]

Sorry about the constant requests for help but I'm afraid my knowledge is very limited.



What does that mean please?



DD = Direct drive?

Definitely not understanding this as I came down hill at Manifold at 39mph.

They've spent a lot of time on the Endless-Sphere forum discussing how the 15 mph speed limit can be changed or by-passed, but so far, nobody has found a way.

DD means Direct Drive motor, i.e. no clutch to disengage the motor when free-wheeling, so you get a bit of drag from the magnets.although the KTM's Bionx motor is better than most. Often, they have regen as well, which often can't be disengaged, so it saps your energy down-hill. Your KTM maybe had the speed--limit released. You can read about it here. As i said, I've never ridden one, so I'm only going on hear-say:
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/4868-drag-bionx-system.html

 

[Deleted member 4366]

S

Definitely not understanding this as I came down hill at Manifold at 39mph.

Just realised that there's two KTM eRaces. There's the eRace and the eRace 650P, which are two entirely different bikes.

Did you ride the eRace P650 with Panasonic motor or the eRace with Bionx motor?

Dave mentioned that he had the eRace P650 on loan for the manifold trail. If it were the eRace P650, that might explain how you free-wheeled at 39mph.

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

Dave pretty sure it was the same one which was at Redbridge which was the Panasonic version, also Kudos Dave posted asking what people thought of the bike. The regen on the panasonic works via the brakes rather than when free-wheeling like the Storck and some other bikes. My understanding was that the bike is direct drive but pretty sure this is correct, will double check. We have one in stock and have note noticed any drag when on the flat or downhill in comparison to other electric bikes. Dave if you are ever in our area your welcome to come for a test ride.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Looks like a nice motor - good free-wheeling and high torque. If you have time, lift the wheel off the ground and see if you can detect any difference between turning it backwards and forwards. Unfortunateky it'll move the chain and pedals backwards, but see if you can detect any cogging from the motor (pulsing magnetic resistance)

 

[Taff]

It was the eRace650.
I think now my choice is this bike or the Neo Cross.

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

Looks like a nice motor - good free-wheeling and high torque. If you have time, lift the wheel off the ground and see if you can detect any difference between turning it backwards and forwards. Unfortunateky it'll move the chain and pedals backwards, but see if you can detect any cogging from the motor (pulsing magnetic resistance)

Thanks we have a few repairs to do (for both our businesses) so I will get my mechanical wizz on the case to check as soon as we get the chance.

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

Almost definitely a direct drive, initial reason we went with it was because we wanted a similar bike to Storck but for less money. The thing which put me off BionX was the replacement battery costs Bosch, Impulse etc are expensive but unless the prices have gone down BionX is on another level.

Will hopefully have the chance to do the test tomorrow with my collegue just to be certain, too busy selling bikes today!

 

[103Alex1]

Tried out a Neo Xtrem at Eden. It was a very impressive bike performance wise, although none of the bikes at the show did anything much for me looks-wise. My Agattu and regular MTB appeal to me much more than any I saw there.

The Neo Xtrem was very responsive and gobbled the short hill climb (such as it was ... more of a gentle slope by my standards and far too short to see whether power could be sustained but you could get a feel for it anyway). Reckon putting the same motor on a 28" bike would result in the loss of some torque / speed but that's only speculation.

For a 'road legal' bike with performance you'd go some way to beat this. I didn't bother trying out the Carbon. It just looked like it had 'had it' and the dent on the chainstay just spelt "too precious for normal use by normal people".

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

Try KTM Panasonic hub drive this is super quick in top assistance (400%). Neo's are good bikes though

 

[103Alex1]

Wish you'd been down at Eden - I'd have tried one for sure. Any more details ? Range limits are the main worry with these bikes, but seeing as I haven't been able to use my 40-100 mile range for months now on account of another still unresolved issue it's all got pretty academic. I've been stuck without reliable long range transport for months anyway so thinking I may as well give up on the dream of longer rides and have a punchier bike to use closer to home instead ... at least it'll allow me to get out more and have some fun for the thousands of quid I've shelled out !

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

We do several shows but generally just local i.e. Norfolk and Suffolk but looking at others for next year! Or you could come and see us, we have some decent testing conditions.

Max range is 70 miles. David from A to B got 32 miles mainly using top two assistance levels so this may be slightly below what you need, generally half quoted maximum range which usually proves fairly accurate. Always recommend people go for more than they need so that the battery last longer in the long run. We have eTour in stock and were first in UK to have it (according to KTM distributers). Put brief details on the website but need to update with more information so drop me a line if you have any questions.

KTM Electric Bikes electric bikes folding bikes
(Note only added bikes we have in stock to this page)

While Bosch got 25 miles in hilly Wales in top level of assistance with the larger 400wh battery, though do not think you are keen on this system I would say at least 50 miles would be more reasonable with lower levels of assistance (maximum quoted range is 118 miles).

 

[jackhandy]

The Neo Xtrem was very responsive and gobbled the short hill climb (such as it was ... more of a gentle slope by my standards and far too short to see whether power could be sustained

I didn't bother trying out the Carbon. It just looked like it had 'had it' and the dent on the chainstay just spelt "too precious for normal use by normal people".

Thanks for your informed & informative comments re: the hill - It took some of us some considerable effort to get the use of it.

As for the ding on the Carbon; A punter crashed it & managed to wrap the chain round the BB : It's a credit to the bike that it shows as little damage as it does - It looks considerably better than his face: Not a pretty sight.

 

[103Alex1]

Hi Jack

I appreciate the difficulties there and it was a lot better than other events like the NEC. I had a long chat with the lady who organized it too and gave her some encouragement about the positive sides of it and need for events like that in the SW so please don't misread my comments. I also let her know that it was this exhibition that had led to a decision to get a family member to drive the 100 mile round trip to attend and also buy the Eden entrances - which we wouldn't have otherwise done so was evidence of revenue positivity for the Project. That must be the largest display of bikes to test the area has ever seen.

On the carbon bikes, that's a shame about the punter crashing. Carbon bikes are basically fragile - that's the point I was making. It's one thing on a lightweight road bike that can be treated as a precious commodity but imho they make poor bedfellows for hub motor bikes weighing in at well over 15kg. They will appeal to a niche market but after lifting one I just couldn't get excited about those sorts of weight savings for what carbon frames bring with them. 'In the flesh', the two just didn't sit right together for me.

The reality of the slope is that even this isn't enough to get a sensible test ride of an electric bike in for strenuous hill climbing performance so the only way seems to be to go to a dealer who will allow several miles of test or buy one and take your chances. I had a long chat with Rob at BH and he admitted he hadn;t really tested the Xtrem in conditions I described in a comparative sense to the slope (relative length and relative slope). Since those are the conditions which make or break a bike's usefulness for me the test slope couldn't answer the only relevant question which I need answering on whether to buy a bike or not.

My post on the Tonaro is still under moderation but suffice to say having had to dismount to turn the Bighit at the top of the pretty narrow slope slope where you reached the silver branches led to my finger touching the half throttle trying to manoeuvre the bike round and I now have a half moon of scabs in the shape of a pedal on my shin.

I held on to it whilst it did a wheelie at the top after dismounting whilst turning it to avoid the bike getting damaged. Took the full force of a runaway somewhat heavy bike against my leg and have to confess the walk back to the cafeteria was on the painful side. Thankfully this was the last bike I had lined up to test not the first. These things happen, but I have to say that particular bike was a blooming hazard. It's not as if I've never ridden a bike, moped or eBike before and still wound up having something like that happen !

 

[jackhandy]

we warned newbies to ebikes against using a throttle until they were seated on the bike, to avoid mishaps & generally advised people not to use them where there was a pas alternative. I personally pointed out, many times, where the throttle was & "don't touch it, even accidentally ) "

One tends to assume experienced riders will know this....

It's a shame your original post comes accross as dismissive & negative, considering just how much bloody hard work has gone into the event & how much both exhibitors & "ebike virgins" have enjoyed it.

 

[dmcgoldrick]

we warned newbies to ebikes against using a throttle until they were seated on the bike, to avoid mishaps & generally advised people not to use them where there was a pas alternative. I personally pointed out, many times, where the throttle was & "don't touch it, even accidentally ) "

One tends to assume experienced riders will know this....

It's a shame your original post comes accross as dismissive & negative, considering just how much bloody hard work has gone into the event & how much both exhibitors & "ebike virgins" have enjoyed it.

i am sure you worked very hard for this ebike promotion......you cant please all of the people all of the time....not sure if you are selling or just a 'helper', but you need to take on board the negative comments in order to move the event forward.....just putting in a lot of 'hard work' does not always prove successful.....you need to meet customer requirements/expectations......
just sayin like.....based on 40 odd years in the marketing/selling game........
regards

 

[103Alex1]

we warned newbies to ebikes against using a throttle until they were seated on the bike, to avoid mishaps & generally advised people not to use them where there was a pas alternative. I personally pointed out, many times, where the throttle was & "don't touch it, even accidentally ) "

One tends to assume experienced riders will know this....

It's a shame your original post comes accross as dismissive & negative, considering just how much bloody hard work has gone into the event & how much both exhibitors & "ebike virgins" have enjoyed it.

Yes, unfortunately the dyed in the wool amongst us very quickly get to the stage where we're looking at the nitty gritty of our own interests and finer comparisons rather than the novelty aspect for newbies - for which there was a great deal on offer. I'm very hard to please when it comes to events like these and rarely go to any, partly because I don't like trying to ride round crowded circuits (something which was happily absent from the day I went so big thumbs up on that) and also because I know that the main thing you can get from them is the chance to eyeball the bikes you have in mind. The testing is inevitably constrained by so many factors that for me it just never does more than help eliminate bikes you definitely won't consider and maybe spot ones you hadn't before rather than get you the rest of the way to picking your winner off a shortlist. So I think my expectations are in that sense realistic - albeit one always hopes for the unlikely. None of that detracts from the fact that it was a great turnout of bikes and a great opportunity to give people a taster of what will in many cases likely lead to a purchase I'm sure.

I was definitely not warned not to touch the Bighit half-throttle thing even accidentally by the guy who gave it to me to test - although it would have been nigh on impossible to turn that bike at the top of that slope without a strong risk of accidentally brushing it - which looking back is what happened. It didn't feel even feintly sprung to me. I have a throttle 'off switch' in the centre position of my 3sp switch on the Trek and I always turn both throttles off before dismounting. There seemed no way to do that on the Bighit and it is confusing having one like that on a crank drive bike with PAS, especially on the LHS. Basically to me it was a health hazard without being in 'kid gloves' territory trying to handle the bike when dismounted unless you turn the power off.

I'd definitely have to disable or replace that throttle with something less dangerous if I had one of those bikes. Would be all too easy to forget. It was an eye-opener. I've only ridden crank drives apart from the self build with thumb throttles and the Neo I tested earlier in the week.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Yes.I know what you mean. I've switched all my bikes over to thumb throttles now, which I think are not only safer, but also more comfortable. I must admit that I found it a bit weird having a grip that rotated when I tested some bikes recently, and you're right, it's easy to accidentally rotate one when you're man-handling the bike.

If you want to test bikes up hills, I hope you come to thr Bristol event.

 

[103Alex1]

If you want to test bikes up hills, I hope you come to the Bristol event.

I'm going to try with that one - may be down in Devon a lot more from a couple of weeks' time now Spring is finally here so it'll depend on what I've got on down there. So much to do now the garden is springing to life that keeping it under control tends to demand most of my free time from May to October.

Better pull my finger out and finish that box, eh ? !

 

[Footloose]

I thought it was time that I gave some followup information regarding my Neo Xtrem
I have been using it usually several times a week since my initial post. I have been very pleased with it.
The motor is no less noisy and possibly slightly more! I tend to keep the battery mid charged, so range is difficult to estimate. The most I have done is 35 miles on one charge doing a mix of fast roads, cycle tracks and off road bridleways in the Purbeck Hills.
It is very much more powerful when the battery is charged than when nearly discharged and still powers away at 20mph according to my GPS.
The only problem I have had is repeated 'error 13' messages, related to the cable close to the control panel. It often occurs when stationary and turning the wheel to the right. The bike goes in for servise soon and I hope a fix can be done under warranty.
I have been pleased with my choice. The bike is fun off road and useful on the road too.

Footloose

 

[ghouluk]

The only problem I have had is repeated 'error 13' messages, related to the cable close to the control panel. It often occurs when stationary and turning the wheel to the right. The bike goes in for servise soon and I hope a fix can be done under warranty.
I have been pleased with my choice. The bike is fun off road and useful on the road too.

Footloose

interesting my neo has a fault when you turn the steering all the way to the left I've got a warranty case open on it at the moment - fabulous bike from my perspective though.