What battery to buy?

Joef.111

Finding my (electric) wheels
May 20, 2019
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I have a 36v front hub XF07 kit from woosh and I need another battery. In a few months I will be building another ebike using a tsdz2 500w 48v kit.
1. If I buy a 48v battery could it be used with my 36v kit?
2. Where can I buy a downtube battery that fits??
 

sjpt

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Jun 8, 2018
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Woosh sell the batteries (if they aren't out of stock). I'm not sure if the motor would hack it; I suspect there will be issues with the controller and LCD, I'm sure Woosh will give you a proper answer soon.
 

Joef.111

Finding my (electric) wheels
May 20, 2019
5
0
Woosh sell the batteries (if they aren't out of stock). I'm not sure if the motor would hack it; I suspect there will be issues with the controller and LCD, I'm sure Woosh will give you a proper answer soon.
Yeah forgot to mention they are out of stock for a while, know anywhere else?
 

Nealh

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Aug 7, 2014
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v kit.
1. If I buy a 48v battery could it be used with my 36v kit?
Not unless the controller is dual voltage model, most are for a certain voltage value.
If you try without knowing you will 99% blow the controller.
 
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Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
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By the looks of it you need a 36v Hailong 1 battery.
Check the thumb nails carefully and esp the rail dimensions to make sure the battery is an exact fit to match yours.

This one if you need another charger.
 

WheezyRider

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Apr 20, 2020
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Not unless the controller is dual voltage model, most are for a certain voltage value.
If you try without knowing you will 99% blow the controller.
Nealh gives sensible advice, but I would not say the risk is as high as 99%. All the 36V controllers I have taken apart can handle 48V no problem. 36V controllers are often designed around a standard PCB, which just has solder pads which are bridged to select 48 or 36V. However, all this really does is select the minimum cut off voltage so it's correct for a 36 or 48V pack.

The thing to do is open up the controller and look at the voltage ratings of the main capacitors and the MOSFETS. Typically, big electrolytic capacitors on the power output side come in 25, 50, 63 and 100V ratings. If they are 50V or less, it will not take a 48V pack, as fully charged, this will be around 54V, so those 50V caps will go POP! If they are 63V, you should be fine.

Also, look at the code numbers on the MOSFETS and look up their specs online. Typically these are rated at 65 to 70V on the controllers I have taken apart, so they should be fine for 48V packs.

If the capacitors are only 50V, you can replace them quite easily (see my mod pic of a controller where the caps are replaced with 100V ratings). 36V controller.JPG shows the PCB. The important caps are the two big blue ones on the left, and there is a smaller blue one near the MOSFETS at the back. These are 63V rated caps, and the MOSFETS are rated to 70V. So, this stock controller would be fine with a 48V pack, even though it is a very cheap controller, only labelled for 36V.

In the other picture, you can see how I have replaced the stock 63V caps with 100V rated caps. The case had to be modded for them to fit lol. Higher voltage caps take up more space as you can see!

With this mod, the limiting factor is the MOSFETS at 70V. I've pushed it up to around 73V and it didn't go bang, but probably best not to go mad and keep volts below the MOSFET rating.

The only other issue is how high a voltage the controller's Buck converter circuit can handle. This converts your battery voltage to 5V logic levels used by all the electronics. There will be a point at which it will fail if you push the volts up too high. With one controller I have, if I push it much above about 60V, a cut out trips in and the controller shuts down.

If you have nothing to lose, experiment. But if the controller is expensive and difficult to replace, think twice about it.

ALSO: be very careful handling voltages over 50V!!!
 

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Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
19,529
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wooshbikes.co.uk
1. If I buy a 48v battery could it be used with my 36v kit?
don't do that.
Each set is optimised to work together.
A 36V motor that is optimised for 15mph when run with a 48V controller is no longer optimised for 15mph but 30% higher, therefore will run at a lousy yield when climbing hills, it will shed a lot more heat and melt your plastic gears.
All the modern controllers are waterproofed with silicon sealant. There is no way you can change anything inside. If you increase the voltage, the resistor that drops the voltage from 36V to 14V for the FET drivers is going to overheat. If it blows, the controller is not repairable. The 36V controller is set for 17A. If you connect it to a 48V battery, you send 48*17A = 816W into you kit. The XF07 is not dimensioned for that amount of power. The DWG22C is but it weighs 60% more.
You can see that to handle 30% more power, the motor weighs 30%-60% more. That's the margin to guarantee that the heat won't kill the kit.
The KM529 LCD is factory set for 36V, it can't be changed.
None of our kits is dual voltage. KT kits are, not Lishui.
 
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WheezyRider

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Apr 20, 2020
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don't do that.
Each set is optimised to work together.
A 36V motor that is optimised for 15mph when run with a 48V controller is no longer optimised for 15mph but 30% higher, therefore will run at a lousy yield when climbing hills, it will shed a lot more heat and melt your plastic gears.
All the modern controllers are waterproofed with silicon sealant. There is no way you can change anything inside. If you increase the voltage, the resistor that drops the voltage from 36V to 14V for the FET drivers is going to overheat. If it blows, the controller is not repairable. The 36V controller is set for 17A. If you connect it to a 48V battery, you send 48*17A = 816W into you kit. The XF07 is not dimensioned for that amount of power. The DWG22C is but it weighs 60% more.
You can see that to handle 30% more power, the motor weighs 30%-60% more. That's the margin to guarantee that the heat won't kill the kit.
The KM529 LCD is factory set for 36V, it can't be changed.
None of our kits is dual voltage. KT kits are, not Lishui.

Sorry Whoosh, you've got a few things wrong there. Some controllers are encapsulated in resin and you can't modify them (maybe your Lishui ones are? - And obviuosly, doing something like this will invalid warranty) But most controllers on the market are not and you can mod them, as you can see from my photos. Also, if you search online you will see people doing all sorts of mods to their controllers, like modding the shunt to increase current, writing new custom firmware, modding for 36/48V operation or even higher voltages.

Also, it is not a simple resistor that drops the voltage down to drive the MOSFETS, it is a Buck convertor or similar. Otherwise you would have all sorts of drive issues going from 42V at max charge to 30V at cut off, even with a 36V pack. The drive voltage to the MOSFETS is regulated to the required voltage, whatever the battery pack voltage may be (so long as it does not go way beyond the spec of the regulating circuit).

Similarly, the voltage to the LCD is supplied by the regulator circuit on the controller, so this will be typically 5V and it doesn't care what the battery voltage is, other than what digital signal the controller is giving it for voltage display and also the signal for the controller to then shut the system down if the battery voltage goes too low.

In my experience and that of a lot of other people on the web, many motors nominally marked "250W" can easily handle 800W for significant periods of time and over 1000W for short periods. Some people even put automatic transmission fluid into their motors to enhance cooling and get them up to crazy levels of W.

But, to stop the motor burning out, you need to increase voltage and keep the current down, eg, use 48V, but use a small controller of 15A, giving 810W at peak battery charge (54V).

The speed limiter at 15.5 mph will still kick in the same, as the limiter signal is frequency, not battery voltage dependent.

What you end up with by increasing the voltage is more oomph for getting up hills and faster starts. And, if you go off road and derestrict, you will have a much higher top speed with more volts.

In terms of range, if you go to 48V you need less current to deliver the same power, so range actually improves, as resistance losses increase with the square of the current.

In terms of the nylon cogs, they will strip if you overdo the current. In my experience, keep the current down and the volts high and you will be fine up to at least 750 to 800W. Even if you do strip the cogs, a replacement set is only about £20 and you can even buy metal cog replacement kits, so it's not the end of the world.

It all depends on what the poster of the original thread wants and his reasons for going to 48V...what do they want to achieve?