Wisper 906 Alpino first impressions

[Mussels]

How is the range? Of course if we use the 16.5A controller this would shorten a little.

All the best

David

I've done a few runs now on full power without charging the battery during the day, I also reversed it and didn't charge at night to confirm what I thought. After 17 miles the battery shows full charge and feels strong but on the return journey there is a definate loss of power and my average speed drops by about 6%, I can feel the voltage drop. On the 905 I could go both ways and not notice any voltage drop until the motor cut out, whether this is down to the new motor or the change of battery I don't know and it's a shame I can't fit my old battery to the new bike to test.
After 35 miles the lack of assist really shows but it still helps well on steep hills and is just generally slower, if I was doing a long run then I'd start on a lower power setting. At this point the battery has two green light on but feels like it doesn't have much more to give, if I'm feeling energetic at some point I'll try the third run and see how far I get.

 

[fishingpaul]

I've done a few runs now on full power without charging the battery during the day, I also reversed it and didn't charge at night to confirm what I thought. After 17 miles the battery shows full charge and feels strong but on the return journey there is a definate loss of power and my average speed drops by about 6%, I can feel the voltage drop. On the 905 I could go both ways and not notice any voltage drop until the motor cut out, whether this is down to the new motor or the change of battery I don't know and it's a shame I can't fit my old battery to the new bike to test.
After 35 miles the lack of assist really shows but it still helps well on steep hills and is just generally slower, if I was doing a long run then I'd start on a lower power setting. At this point the battery has two green light on but feels like it doesn't have much more to give, if I'm feeling energetic at some point I'll try the third run and see how far I get.

You will notice the voltage drop far more if the controller can supply more amps,i think the old controller supplied 15 amps max and the new one can give 20 amps,when climbing 20 amps + is a great help, and is it very noticeable as the available energy from the battery declines,at 15 amps it is far easier for the battery to supply a slow climb and power loss from the battery is less obvious.

 

[eBikes New Zealand ltd]

PA speed on Alpino

yes 6 % is to be expected... It is not a battery or motor issue (our cells are the same as they have always been ) The 6 top speed levels of PA assist will decrease as the running voltage decreases (which is a normal process in any battery). The running voltage (under high load) of wisper 14ah batteries starts at about 38v and will be 31.5v on a near depleted battery. This will drop the speeds of your PA modes about 20%. My advice is to click to level 6 (100%) when your batt is getting low. Also, best to charge your battery after each use... this keeps you in the high running voltage end of things and this is where your battery prefers to be By top-up charging regularly, instead of deep cycling, you will increase the lifespan of your battery and always get the top speed out of your system. Hope this helps.

 

[MAB]

Thanks Mussels!

I've been following this thread with much interest and after a test ride last Thursday, I came to this conclusion; I want one!!!

Completed the cycle 2 work forms Friday morning, got to work this morning and found to my great surprise the voucher has been approved by my employers! Just how long I will have to wait for the voucher to arrive in my hands is another matter?

So there we have it, another soon to be member of the e-bike scene.

Cheers,

Mike.

 

[Teejay]

It strikes me that waiting till later this year (or into next year ) will get us an even better bike, as we're promised a) 16.5 amp controller b) hydraulic brakes c) the option of a 20.5 A/hr battery [80 mile range?]

It's the latter battery I'd like to ask about. I notice the 8 A/hr and 14A/hr ones are touted as 37V nominal but this as 36V nominal. Is there anything significant in this? Just a Typo or different technology?

 

[flecc]

Probably typo, these lithium batteries have ten series cells of 3.7 volts so 37 volts, but the 36 volt expression still lingers after years of 3 x SLA, Ni-Cad and NiMh batteries, all those at 36 volts.
.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

It strikes me that waiting till later this year (or into next year ) will get us an even better bike, as we're promised a) 16.5 amp controller b) hydraulic brakes c) the option of a 20.5 A/hr battery [80 mile range?]

It's the latter battery I'd like to ask about. I notice the 8 A/hr and 14A/hr ones are touted as 37V nominal but this as 36V nominal. Is there anything significant in this? Just a Typo or different technology?

Hi Teejay

Thanks for your question.

On the Alpino and xc bikes, hydraulic brakes are available later this month as a retro fit for £50.00, the 16.5A controllers will be available next month (August) free exchange for those who don't mind loosing some range. The 36V 20.5Ah battery will be available in September after further tests and will cost in the region of £700.00 or add about £200.00 to the standard 14A bike cost.

To Clarify we used to describe our batteries as 37V but we now call them 36V, is there anywhere in our publicity we are still calling them 37? If so please let me know and I will make the necessary changes.

Best regards

David

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Probably typo, these lithium batteries have ten series cells of 3.7 volts so 37 volts, but the 36 volt expression still lingers after years of 3 x SLA, Ni-Cad and NiMh batteries, all those at 36 volts.
.

Absolutely spot on Flecc!

We recently changed our description to 36V as 37V was causing confusion.

Best regards

David

 

[Mussels]

Slight hiccup today. I've noticed an odd noise from the back wheel over the last few days and I put it down to the recently tightened spokes needing a tweek. The noise got a bit worse this morning and by the time I came home had turned into a rythmic squeel, so much that the guy in front turned round as he had no idea what was following him.
Strangely whenever I was off the bike the noise stopped even if I was spinning the rear wheel fast, I deduced that my weight must have something to do with it. Then after I stopped in the park the noise stopped but I couldn't work out what happened until I went round a left hand bend and realised the stand was still down! Every time I tried to find out what was making the noise I was off the bike and the stand was down, when it was up it was rubbing on the brake disk. It had taken a while to rub through the plastic to expose the spring inside but the loud noise started when the leg of the stand rubbed against the outside of the disk, it's made a nice mess of the stand but I think the disk is undamaged. Once the stand was taken off there was peace and quiet. It's in the shed at the moment so I'll grab a picture tomorrow.

 

[flecc]

Just as well you didn't post asking for a diagnosis, we'd have been guessing for ever.
.

 

[Mussels]

Just as well you didn't post asking for a diagnosis, we'd have been guessing for ever.
.

I didn't dare ask, I knew I'd end up kicking myself when I found out.
I borrowed the stand from my 905 and that was a very close fit, the first time I did it up the metal clamp was fouling the disk. When I got it in a better position the leg was only just missing the disk so it looks like something different is needed.

 

[tangent]

37V with a 16.5A controller. I make that 610.5W of electrical power. Are these bikes illegal or just grossly inefficient, with only 250W of output mechanical power?

 

[Wisper Bikes]

I didn't dare ask, I knew I'd end up kicking myself when I found out.
I borrowed the stand from my 905 and that was a very close fit, the first time I did it up the metal clamp was fouling the disk. When I got it in a better position the leg was only just missing the disk so it looks like something different is needed.

Thanks Andrew, was this the stand suppled with the bike?

Regards

David

 

[Bob_about]

Ref Cycle 2 work voucher

I've been following this thread with much interest and after a test ride last Thursday, I came to this conclusion; I want one!!!

Completed the cycle 2 work forms Friday morning, got to work this morning and found to my great surprise the voucher has been approved by my employers! Just how long I will have to wait for the voucher to arrive in my hands is another matter?

So there we have it, another soon to be member of the e-bike scene.

Cheers,

Mike.

A note about the process if you are using cyclescheme.co.uk

When I applied for mine I was impressed at how easy it was and how quickly it got approved - right up to the stage you are now at!

What happens next is cyclescheme.co.uk will email an invoice to your employer at the email address your employer submitted when they joined the scheme. In my case it went into a junk filter at that account and was subsequently deleted!

Cyclesheme.co.uk will not send you the voucher until your employer has settled the invoice - if like some companies your employer pays everything on a 28 day process, you could be waiting 4 weeks or so.

In my case I waited 4 weeks and then started chasing only to find the invoice had not been recieved.

It may be worth checking with your employer who will recieve the invoice and how long they will take to pay it. Once that is done it took about 2 or 3 days for the voucher to arrive at work where it was then handed to me the next time I was in the office.

Hope this is of interest.

All the best with your new bike

Bob_about

 

[flecc]

37V with a 16.5A controller. I make that 610.5W of electrical power. Are these bikes illegal or just grossly inefficient, with only 250W of output mechanical power?

That's gross peak "power" which is actually the possible consumption figure of course with no regard to efficiency.

The requirements of the law are maximum continuous power, so that can be a rating assessment of what is expended over time while in use. Some legal motors actually peak at well over 700 watts, but the peak at the wheel surface onto the road of such a motor can be down to as low as 500 watts.
.

 

[Mussels]

Thanks Andrew, was this the stand suppled with the bike?

Regards

David

It was and I hadn't adjusted it at all. When I fitted the other stand it appeared to clear the rotor but I still heard it rubbing this morning so it looks like it moves about when I'm riding.

 

[tangent]

That's gross peak "power" which is actually the possible consumption figure of course with no regard to efficiency.

The requirements of the law are maximum continuous power, so that can be a rating assessment of what is expended over time while in use. Some legal motors actually peak at well over 700 watts, but the peak at the wheel surface onto the road of such a motor can be down to as low as 500 watts.
.

Interesting, up to now I have assumed that peak power was sub-second in duration. I am curious about the difference between continuous power and peak power. How long can a bike legally run at "peak" power, before it is clear that this is actually a continuous power?

For instance, can the Wisper, with a 16.5A controller, going up a long steady hill continuously consume 16.5A? Or is there something in the controller to prevent this?

 

[flecc]

Yes, the so called peak power can often be sustained for long periods. I've tested running at a "peak" maximum of over 500 watts for well over one hour with motor temperature checks at both ends, the temperature actually dropping by one degree C. This whole legal situation is very vague, but frankly I don't much care and trust it stays that way. A motor only capable of a continuous 250 watts would be completely useless on hills unless driving through the chain and gears, as I know from the earliest days of e-bikes when they did actually strictly conform to the 200 watts permitted at that time.
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[tangent]

Yes, a vague definition is probably beneficial to us all at present. I did not realise that "legal" hub motor bikes would push the rules so far though. Appropriate questions to ask for anyone buying a hub motor bike would then be "what is the peak power?", "How long can peak power be maintained?".

 

[flecc]

All the popular Bafang motors can maintain maximum power indefinitely, the only question really is what is the peak. 400 to 450 watts is the mainstream figure, examples of the odd bikes above this at around 500+ watts (Wisper), 600 watts (Heinzmann) and over 700 watts (eZee). Lower powers are rare, the Powacycle Salisbury at 300+ the only hub motor one I know of at present.
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