Wisper rear Bafang and front Dapu motors.....

[funkylyn]

I tried some high end swiss Flyer Panasonic bikes at Dusseldorf motorhome show last year and fell in love with an X series (over 5k)

But when I got back home and out on my Wisper again, I was far from disappointed, they are great bikes and do everything I need......... and like you say David is a one off in this industry, particularly if you ain't to tech savvy like me

5K.....phew

Makes my choices seem cheap

Me defo not techie savvy

 

[Mussels]

I've ridden both the 905 and 906 Alpino several thousand miles.
Advantages of the front wheel drive Dapu motor:
Good rear hub gears, I prefer derailers but the much reduced maintenance of the hub gears is well worth it. I don't think I'd like any other hub than the Alfine due to changing gears when pedalling.
Better freewheel, I can pedal the 906 much faster than the motor limit but on the 905 I struggled.
A faster and more powerful motor, see the disadvantages too.

Disadvantages of the front Dapu motor.
Rear wheel drive rides better and feels more planted.
Front wheel can slip on poor surfaces or when pulling away quickly, though this is rare and I don't remember it causing me a problem.
In standard form it feels low on power, Wisper changed the controllers and it feels much better now. There seems to be a power band when the speedo is showing about 25kph, it's great when you hit it but if you are unfit and can't get there it's not so good.

The frame is quite different as well so that is likely to be a big deciding factor. The 906 is faster, this is probably due to bike design rather than motor power but it's not a huge difference.

 

[funkylyn]

thanks mussels your opinions are very interesting, as for the unfit comment......hmmmm......will have to try it and see how I find it.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Wisper changed the controllers and it feels much better now.

I never did thank you for your help in testing the new 16.5A controller Andrew, due to your favourable report all those months ago all Wisper's have been upgraded from the old 14.5A.

So thanks!

All the best

David

 

[brucehawsker]

Stupid Question

David, Does that mean a maximium amp draw of 16.5A?

Thx

Bruce

 

[Wisper Bikes]

No not at all stupid Bruce.

I have no idea to be honest, I will know by this time tomorrow though. I am not certain if like the 250W motor it is a rated figure or simply a maximum.

My gut feeling is that it's a rated figure, I am sure Flecc will know but in the mean time I will ask Nick our electronics wizard.

All the best

David

 

[flecc]

Those are probably the maximum figures, the 16.5 capable of delivering a nominal 610 watts gross with short term higher peaks. That indicates delivery to the road of about 460 to 500 watts, typical for the more powerful end of the e-bike market.

Of course the working average will be much lower for journey duration, those figures only applying during times of maximum demand such as hillclimbing.
.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Thanks Tony, I had a feeling you would be able to shine some light on the matter!

Best regards

David

 

[Biged]

I am intending to try the raleigh dover, which I understand will soon be available with the new 18Ah battery

Where have you heard this funkylyn?
I have been on the Raleigh site and no 18ah option is listed, 50cycles only list it for the Agattu in 2011, the Dover still being 10ah.
Why do you think you have to have the 18ah battery, how many miles are you thinking of doing?
My wife has the Dover and could not be more pleased.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

I believe this 18Ah battery is only 24V and not 36V as on most electric bikes. If so it would equate to a 12Ah battery on a 36V model.

All the best

David

 

[funkylyn]

Where have you heard this funkylyn?
I have been on the Raleigh site and no 18ah option is listed, 50cycles only list it for the Agattu in 2011, the Dover still being 10ah.
Why do you think you have to have the 18ah battery, how many miles are you thinking of doing?
My wife has the Dover and could not be more pleased.

Cant remember where I heard or saw it (been doing a LOT of googling ! ) but when I asked a dealer about it back in february he confirmed that it was apparently going to be announced at a Raleigh publicity meeting, I think around the 23rd march, and was amazed that I knew about it......think he thought I was a psychic or something

I am looking for more range as I often like to do maybe 30/40 miles on traffic free cycleways.......OR be wildcamping, without electric, somewhere and need my battery to do 2 days cycling without a charge.

 

[flecc]

Cant remember where I heard or saw it (been doing a LOT of googling ! ) but when I asked a dealer about it back in february he confirmed that it was apparently going to be announced at a Raleigh publicity meeting, I think around the 23rd march, and was amazed that I knew about it.....

Lloyd Clarkson of Raleigh has mentioned these batteries in a post in this forum, so that might have prompted the thought:

Lloyd's posting on BMZ batteries
.

 

[funkylyn]

Lloyd Clarkson of Raleigh has mentioned these batteries in a post in this forum, so that might have prompted the thought:

Lloyd's posting on BMZ batteries
.

Thanks Flecc...I've just really enjoyed reading that thread, but it was definately a separate web page I stumbled on that mentioned the battery for Raleigh...I just cant for the life of me remember which one and if I started back tracking to find it I would lose the will to live

Anyway.....lets see how good it turns out to be.....

 

[Wisper Bikes]

David, Does that mean a maximium amp draw of 16.5A?

Thx

Bruce

Hi Bruce

As Flecc says, 16.5A is the maximum output available from the controller.

The controller will only reach this level during start up and serious hill climbing. Any more power would eventually have a detrimental effect on the battery, controller and motor.

All the best

David

 

[brucehawsker]

David, this is really really really interesting. At Barcelona Tech I am involved in some loose supervision of a PhD project on battery wear and tear. We have designed (they have built) a simulator which enables us to put batteries through hours of simulated travel. This includes hill starts as well as long runs downhill and on the flat. The early results show it is the peak amp draws which really knacker the batteries - cause degradation of their charging ability and reduce their range even when charge. We are using Mn spinel batteries, and find if we limit maximum amp draw to say 7A (this would force a large bloke to get off and push if going up a 1 in 6) we extend battery life (in terms of charges) by some 40%!

Do you know of any other work on batteries like this - in China perhaps?

PS have sent off my BEBA form - sorry for the confusion

 

[flecc]

The early results show it is the peak amp draws which really knacker the batteries - cause degradation of their charging ability and reduce their range even when charge. We are using Mn spinel batteries, and find if we limit maximum amp draw to say 7A (this would force a large bloke to get off and push if going up a 1 in 6) we extend battery life (in terms of charges) by some 40%!

Forgive my intruding Bruce, but this is widely accepted in battery circles and I've often made the point in here that the problem for e-bikes is that they cannot carry large enough batteries to get long lives. The accompanying observation I've made is how this advantages e-mopeds and e-cars which can accept proportionally larger batteries.

Ideally 36 volt e-bikes need at least 30 Ah batteries to get optimum battery life, since these could have considerable discharge rate headroom.
.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

David, this is really really really interesting. At Barcelona Tech I am involved in some loose supervision of a PhD project on battery wear and tear. We have designed (they have built) a simulator which enables us to put batteries through hours of simulated travel. This includes hill starts as well as long runs downhill and on the flat. The early results show it is the peak amp draws which really knacker the batteries - cause degradation of their charging ability and reduce their range even when charge. We are using Mn spinel batteries, and find if we limit maximum amp draw to say 7A (this would force a large bloke to get off and push if going up a 1 in 6) we extend battery life (in terms of charges) by some 40%!

Do you know of any other work on batteries like this - in China perhaps?

We do Bruce, we work directly with the battery manufacturers' laboratories. These guys are brilliant and as you can imagine have some of the best test equipment in the world. They are particularly interested in electric bicycles and other electric vehicles. On of my Wisper technicians sits on a team which includes both battery and motor manufacturers. In this way we optimise on the highest power vs the lowest degradation. I would be pleased to talk to you about it when we meet.

Thanks for the BEBA forms.

All the best David

 

[brucehawsker]

Is it a trade secret or can you tell us how much you limit your amp draws on your batteries?

I am going to start a thread (a sort of survey) telling people how to calculate their watt hourage on their batteries and to tell me what they consider to be their typical real world range and whether they are crank or hub motor. From that I will attempt to derive Wh/mile. Such a range of reported Wh/mile would be intriguing, it would be kind of useful to see a distribution graph of that data. Sorry, guys, I am a bit of a geek

Anecdotally, our clients report numbers which imply anywhere between 5 and 8 Wh/mile. What about yours, David?

Thx

Bruce

and, flecc, you NEVER intrude - and I specialise in re-inventing wheels....

 

[flecc]

I am going to start a thread (a sort of survey) telling people how to calculate their watt hourage on their batteries and to tell me what they consider to be their typical real world range and whether they are crank or hub motor. From that I will attempt to derive Wh/mile. Such a range of reported Wh/mile would be intriguing, it would be kind of useful to see a distribution graph of that data.

I'm ready with a horror story example for that thread Bruce, 24.7 watt/hours per mile, and that legal bike is still a current model.

One owner reported a consistent 33.6 watt/hours per mile.

I bet that's got you guessing and anxious to know which rival it is!
.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

I'm ready with a horror story example for that thread Bruce, 24.7 watt/hours per mile, and that legal bike is still a current model.

One owner reported a consistent 33.6 watt/hours per mile.

I bet that's got you guessing and anxious to know which rival it is!
.

Wow! That is huge Flecc, though I think I can guess the bike!

All the best

David