why is this even up for debate?

[Tony1951]

A typical example of where a hi viz or something bright is an advantage to cyclists is a driver waiting to pull out from a side road. A cyclist approaching from the drivers right is wearing clothing that is not conspicuous and the surroundings behind the cyclists is a dark hedgerow or similar.
The cyclist easily blends into the background with the risk of driver taking a Quick Look right not seeing them. Many times I’ve had the driver behind me sound their horn for me taking too long, but in the additional 2 seconds spent that has allowed me to see the near camouflaged cyclist.
2 seconds out of my day to not have hit a cyclist. Not a big ask is it. Do drivers still do blind spot checks after they past test.
As you say we all need to be observant. And to aid such observation be conspicuous.

I've got a good driving record. I have always tried to take good care and I never had a claim against me in nearly 60 years of driving... BUT...

About five years ago, on a wet dark night, I almost ran over an unlit, dark clothed, cyclist as I pulled out of a side road. I was pretty upset at having nearly driven over him. I broke his rear, carbon fibre wheel and the rider ended up falling onto on my bonnet. The collision was nothing more than a touch. I saw him suddenly, and he fell onto my bonnet, but it really un-nerved me, because I did look, and didn't see him.

My vision is not the issue. Mostly, it was down to the fact that he had a tiny, dim led light on his helmet, and was looking down at the road as he pedalled up a steep slope, so the light was not in my vision. The near accident was also affected by the driving rain on my windows and the dark, unlit road.

I offered to pay for his wheel and offered multiple times to take him where he was going, but he was adamant that if I paid for his wheel, we'd both go on our way, older and wiser. He lived very near and completely refused help getting home. He was a doctor at the nearby Freeman Hospital and insisted he was completely unharmed.

The incident caused me a lot of thinking about how I could make sure it never happened again. I have sometimes mentioned that two of my motor bike riding friends have been killed in the last decade by terrible, careless driving from other people, both cases, this kind of incident of not looking properly when driving onto a road. I thought I would never be the person to 'not see' a motorbike or other two wheeled rider. I am one myself and I know how it feels not to be seen.

Now I ALWAYS do a double look - not just one. I look, and then look again. I certainly never want to come as close to harming a two wheeled rider again.

 

[volt x]

I've got a good driving record. I have always tried to take good care and I never had a claim against me in nearly 60 years of driving... BUT...

About five years ago, on a wet dark night, I almost ran over an unlit, dark clothed, cyclist as I pulled out of a side road. I was pretty upset at having nearly driven over him. I broke his rear, carbon fibre wheel and the rider ended up falling onto on my bonnet. The collision was nothing more than a touch. I saw him suddenly, and he fell onto my bonnet, but it really un-nerved me, because I did look, and didn't see him.

My vision is not the issue. Mostly, it was down to the fact that he had a tiny, dim led light on his helmet, and was looking down at the road as he pedalled up a steep slope, so the light was not in my vision. The near accident was also affected by the driving rain on my windows and the dark, unlit road.

I offered to pay for his wheel and offered multiple times to take him where he was going, but he was adamant that if I paid for his wheel, we'd both go on our way, older and wiser. He lived very near and completely refused help getting home. He was a doctor at the nearby Freeman Hospital and insisted he was completely unharmed.

The incident caused me a lot of thinking about how I could make sure it never happened again. I have sometimes mentioned that two of my motor bike riding friends have been killed in the last decade by terrible, careless driving from other people, both cases, this kind of incident of not looking properly when driving onto a road. I thought I would never be the person to 'not see' a motorbike or other two wheeled rider. I am one myself and I know how it feels not to be seen.

Now I ALWAYS do a double look - not just one. I look, and then look again. I certainly never want to come as close to harming a two wheeled rider again.

Fact is the cyclist was at fault . As a doctor you'd think he would be more aware than most.

 

[Tony1951]

Fact is the cyclist was at fault . As a doctor you'd think he would be more aware than most.

I think we were both at fault.

He certainly would have done himself a favour if he had been properly lit and dressed in something visible. It was a stinking windy wet night and just across the junction was a brightly lit up care home which was pretty distracting from his tiny glow worm LED pointing down at the road, but I still think on driving out - albeit slowly, I should have seen him.

I don't think it would happen now, because I never ever pull out without taking a double take on whether there is anything approaching. It is very easy to drive on autopilot. If you do, you will sooner or later have an accident caused by missing something like this almost invisible rider.

 

[guerney]

Were this the 1990's, people would be popping ecstasy and dance along behind him thinking he was some sort of mobile rave.

My lights stop them pulling out in front of my bike at junctions, I'll know their approx age when they start dancing throwing shapes and blowing whistles. Some summer night, I'll load my bicycle trailer with 240V amp speakers smoke machine and more frickin lasers, host an impromptu rave somewhere powered by my ebike battery via the cheapo AliExpress 36V-12V converter and inverter I bought in the sale. I've everything necesary aside from extra frickin laser beams. Some raves pull hot chicks.

 

[soundwave]

My lights stop them pulling out in front of my bike at junctions, I'll know their approx age when they start dancing throwing shapes and blowing whistles. Some summer night, I'll load my bicycle trailer with 240V amp speakers smoke machine and more frickin lasers, host an impromptu rave somewhere powered by my ebike battery via the cheapo AliExpress 36V-12V converter and inverter I bought in the sale. I've everything necesary aside from extra frickin laser beams. Some raves pull hot chicks.

 

[volt x]

I think we were both at fault.

He certainly would have done himself a favour if he had been properly lit and dressed in something visible. It was a stinking windy wet night and just across the junction was a brightly lit up care home which was pretty distracting from his tiny glow worm LED pointing down at the road, but I still think on driving out - albeit slowly, I should have seen him.

I don't think it would happen now, because I never ever pull out without taking a double take on whether there is anything approaching. It is very easy to drive on autopilot. If you do, you will sooner or later have an accident caused by missing something like this almost invisible rider.

The law requires a front facing white light, a light on a helmet is not always going to be front facing. As you've said his light was pointing downwards.

I don't have reflectors on my peddles, so I'm braking the law. When I bought the bike they were attached, but they eventually fell off. I doubt they work as well as intended, depending on the heel of a shoe or boot. Still a good light on the bike is what stops us braking the law and making a drivers life easier to see us.

 

[AndyBike]

As a doctor you'd think he would be more aware than most.

You'd be surprised at some of the antics of professionals.

I was in Amsterdam, and about 3am wandering about trying to find my hostel, I asked a random passerby, who then insisted on taking me to it. He nipped off, came back a minute later with a bike, and i piggybacked there on the rack.
I did ask 'Is this bike stolen ?' to which he replied, it was OK because he was a lawyer

 

[volt x]

You'd be surprised at some of the antics of professionals.

I was in Amsterdam, and about 3am wandering about trying to find my hostel, I asked a random passerby, who then insisted on taking me to it. He nipped off, came back a minute later with a bike, and i piggybacked there on the rack.
I did ask 'Is this bike stolen ?' to which he replied, it was OK because he was a lawyer

Emmm!! Amsterdam you say.

 

[AndyBike]

Emmm!! Amsterdam you say.

Indeed I do.Are you from that wonderful city ?

I've been to that capital about 1/2 dozen times, but also Haarlem, Zandvoort and Rotterdam.
Not been in the Netherlands for at least 20 years, but now I've renewed my passport, I think maybe another trip is justified.

 

[sjpt]

The law requires a front facing white light, a light on a helmet is not always going to be front facing.

I think the law requires front and rear lights attached to the bike. Anything on helmet, clothing etc is a permitted extra

 

[guerney]

I wouldn't want to hear the roar of a Ferrari V12 for the entirety of my bike ride, but with a directional speaker pointed forward, I wouldn't. Unless reflected back by pedestrians with flat hard vertical surfaces, in imminent danger of being run over by what sounds like a Ferrari.

GitHub - gururise/directional_speaker: An ultrasonic directional speaker (aka. Parametric Speaker)

An ultrasonic directional speaker (aka. Parametric Speaker) - gururise/directional_speaker

github.com

 

[Tony1951]

Tony Parsons: How a Red Bull can helped solve mystery of missing cyclist in Argyll

Dr Caroline Muirhead helped lead police to the spot where Tony Parsons had been buried after a confession from her boyfriend.

www.bbc.co.uk

I read this story this morning about a cyclist who was run over at night by someone who then hid the body and later, together with his twin brother buried it in a shallow grave.

The driver got twelve years in jail and his brother got five years for assisting him.

I suspect that drink was part of the issue on the part of the perpetrators, but however vile that pair were, I would have to say I think the cyclist riding at night on a long distance exploit on roads around Glencoe was seriously adding to his risk of coming to harm.

About twenty five years ago I was riding a heavy laden bicycle from the Irish Sea to the North Sea on my own route and I found myself benighted on a winding narrow, uphill road near Tebay with only a dynamo rear light in a rainstorm. Because I could only ride slowly, the light was feeble. I had no option but to ride on to seek overnight shelter at Tebay, but I knew every time I heard an engine that I might get wiped out if the driver coming up behind me, was not on good form.

 

[saneagle]

Tony Parsons: How a Red Bull can helped solve mystery of missing cyclist in Argyll

Dr Caroline Muirhead helped lead police to the spot where Tony Parsons had been buried after a confession from her boyfriend.

www.bbc.co.uk

I read this story this morning about a cyclist who was run over at night by someone who then hid the body and later, together with his twin brother buried it in a shallow grave.

The driver got twelve years in jail and his brother got five years for assisting him.

I suspect that drink was part of the issue on the part of the perpetrators, but however vile that pair were, I would have to say I think the cyclist riding at night on a long distance exploit on roads around Glencoe was seriously adding to his risk of coming to harm.

About twenty five years ago I was riding a heavy laden bicycle from the Irish Sea to the North Sea on my own route and I found myself benighted on a winding narrow, uphill road near Tebay with only a dynamo rear light in a rainstorm. Because I could only ride slowly, the light was feeble. I had no option but to ride on to seek overnight shelter at Tebay, but I knew every time I heard an engine that I might get wiped out if the driver coming up behind me, was not on good form.

The story migh be that a couple of guys had had a few drinks, saw the cyclist and thought it might be a laugh to bump him off the road. In that case, stealth might have been an advantage. The guy was wearing a yellow dayglow reflective jacket. It was the sleeveless type with the reflective strips that go round the shoulders and the middle. They shine like searchlights when any car comes at night. When I wear one, cars are scared to overtake me.

You're sort of right though. If you're cycling anywhere where there's nobody to see what's going on, and a couple of irresponsible drunk guys come along and get annoyed because they had to slow down and wait for 50 miliseconds because you were going round a tight bend at the same time as they were there and there wasn't enough room to get by, you're going to be in trouble - night or day. And they don't even need to be drunk!

 

[AndyBike]

The story migh be that a couple of guys had had a few drinks, saw the cyclist and thought it might be a laugh to bump him off the road.

Thats not a story, thats fantasy. What grounds have you for making such an implication ?

As it was it was a hit and run, then a conspiracy to defeat the ends of justice. But a deliberate act ? highly unlikely, and besides none of that or even the theory was proposed at the trial.

In the end, one got 12 years the other 5, when both should have received 20 years for such an inhumane act

 

[saneagle]

Thats not a story, thats fantasy. What grounds have you for making such an implication ?

As it was it was a hit and run, then a conspiracy to defeat the ends of justice. But a deliberate act ? highly unlikely, and besides none of that or even the theory was proposed at the trial.

In the end, one got 12 years the other 5, when both should have received 20 years for such an inhumane act

Sorry, I didn't know you were there and saw it. Why didn't you report it to the police?

 

[soundwave]

Man run over and stabbed in Gloucester

A man who was stabbed and run over in Gloucester is taken to hospital with life-threatening injuries.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[guerney]

I don't reckon even my bright flashing red 1800LM rear light would have woken up this bus driver. Asleep for "up to 15 seconds", she was on the pavement. It's behind you.

Bus driver sentence increased after killing girl

Martin Asolo-Ogugua's sentence is increased after he fell asleep and crashed into a girl.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[AndyBike]

Sorry, I didn't know you were there and saw it. Why didn't you report it to the police?

So where did your fantasy speculation come from ?

It was reported in the press of a drunk driver, who left the scene and returned to bury to remains and avoid prosecution.

Bears zero resemblance to your descriptive of a couple of guys who saw him and did it deliberately. So no i wasnt there, but neither were you and your descriptive is just total boolocks

I mean where or how did you manage to come up with such rubbish ?

Childish deflection wont work, so give us an answer as to why you concocted such utter rubbish ?

I take it you do know the A82 up there ? Ive ridden it a number of times, and camped the area for decades. And with your intimate knowledge of the road, and how at night it is utterly pitch black.

What happened was horrific, but you do his family a complete disservice by posting such crap up on a public forum where anyone can come across it.

 

[saneagle]

So where did your fantasy speculation come from ?

It was reported in the press of a drunk driver, who left the scene and returned to bury to remains and avoid prosecution.

Bears zero resemblance to your descriptive of a couple of guys who saw him and did it deliberately. So no i wasnt there, but neither were you and your descriptive is just total boolocks

I mean where or how did you manage to come up with such rubbish ?

Childish deflection wont work, so give us an answer as to why you concocted such utter rubbish ?

I take it you do know the A82 up there ? Ive ridden it a number of times, and camped the area for decades. And with your intimate knowledge of the road, and how at night it is utterly pitch black.

What happened was horrific, but you do his family a complete disservice by posting such crap up on a public forum where anyone can come across it.

I could tell you, but it's a secret, and I pinky swore that I'd never tell anyone, least of all you.

 

[Tony1951]

Arguing and speculating for the sake of it aside, the real issue we can all probably agree with is that too many drivers drive without proper attention to what they are doing MOST of the time. All of us have lost attention now and then and shook ourselves back to reality and stopped and took a break to get back into proper levels of attention, but we all have seen these people who are not paying attention at all and don't even care. They are a total menace. I saw a woman once drive past me in a big suv watching a video on a device she had attached to the passenger sun visor flap thingy. I kid you not, she wasn't even looking at the road beyond one glance every ten seconds. I also once followed a woman with a baby in a car seat strapped in the front seat. She was constantly interacting with the child as she drove down a busy road at nine in the morning. Again - no attention on the driving task and 90% of her cognitive capacity on the child. Then there are the doped up coked up lunatics flying about in some sort of psychotic haze. Lastly we have the testosterone hyped nutters charging about like they were pretending to be the Red Baron in a dog fight, desperate to get past everybody else on the road as fast as possible.

I am guessing - and I don't know, but here it is - that the driver who knocked over that cyclist near GlenCoe who had been at a public house where he and his brother had been with an estate shooting party was most likely well over the drink driving limit, which in Scotland is about a third of the English level. My reason for this conclusion is that if he was sober and had inadvertently hit a cyclist, there would be no reason that would explain why he didn't just call the emergency services and try and save the man.