why is this even up for debate?

[jamesporritt]

My brother was knocked off his motorbike last month and lost his right leg.

What happened where?

 

[Ghost1951]

The story about the family member losing a leg is tragic and horrible, but all too common.

Many drivers treat the task of driving like they were sitting at home in an armchair watching TV. They are often inattentive, careless, and cavalier about the safety of others.

I knew of someone who was knocked off his bicycle on a mini round about - clipped by a close passing car. It did not stop. He fell and banged his head. He was wearing a helmet, got up and went home, but was never the same again. He had serious cognitive issues afterwards. He died about three years later at an early age.

Who cares?

No one.

The incident is probably just a line in a police computer somewhere, with 'No Further Action' recorded against it.

Being realistic, unless someone produced dash cam evidence, or had the opportunity to record the registration number, and report it, there is not much anyone could do to track down the driver.

Two motorcyclists I knew have been killed in the last 12 years. Neither was at fault. One was run over by a large SUV on a roundabout. The driver got away with it. The other was killed by a farmer who turned right in front of him from the opposing carriageway, directly into his path. He was an experienced rider who used to volunteer as a safety instructor of newer riders for Durham Police. Much good that did him - sadly.

EVERY motorcyclist can tell you numerous horrible tales of car and other drivers pulling out of side roads into their path. I certainly can. I have three motorbikes. None of them has been out this year yet. Unless you ride slowly on the less busy roads, you are at massive risk. Even then, ridiculous things happen.

 

[volt x]

Now you are making assumptions and just being silly and insulting. My stance is definitely NOT that I'm above the law, no-one is.

But when the law theatens life and actually takes lives, as the white line law has on so many occasions, one is entitled to defend oneself on those occasions.

After 73 years of driving, similar of cycling and some 54 years of motorcycling, there's not a road accident scar on me or anyone else, so I'll continue to trust my judgement and ignore your closed mind one.
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Then your stance is to encourage others into using the box or going over the white line. As you see this as a safety measure for motorcyclists. Yet it is still against the law so perhaps technically you might be seen to be inciting to breaking the law.

In all the years I've been using the London roads I've never seen a motorcyclist being hit by a car at traffic lights as you have described. Most bikers are probably hit by drivers pulling out at a junction. I remember the TV campaign to get drivers to watch out for bikers, when pulling out.

The question is who's being silly, me for advocating the proper use of traffic lights. You for as you put it defending themselves against the white line law. The bigger question is, how far past the white line is okay. I was going to say legitimate but everyone knows it's not.

 

[flecc]

In all the years I've been using the London roads I've never seen a motorcyclist being hit by a car at traffic lights as you have described.

Nor have I and I've never described anything of the sort.

My mention, if you reread my posts, is of two wheelers being crushed by left turning trucks, killing the riders when leaving the lights. Many of them, up to ten or more every year, a subject we discussed in depth long ago. I see now that you've only joined pedelecs this year so it's perhaps not surprising you know so little about this subject.

And it seems you also know nothing about how optional some traffic related laws are, with the government's official published approval.
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[volt x]

The post you're referring to, you first mention motorcyclist and the further on you mention two wheelers. I assumed you were still talking bikers. Yes I did miss the point you made about turning left. To which the majority of injuries happen to cyclists. No decent biker should be in that position.

Now we keep mentioning the white line. Just to clarify are we talking about the same line. The one I refer to is the final one at the lights and not at the start of the box.

This is my personal experience of an incident where a moped rider is stopped in front of me at a very busy set of lights. It's a road going onto the Camden road near the Holloway prison, that's was gone even then.
I always turn left to go up the Camden but have to cross two lanes to get to the right turning lane that gets me home. Bus lane , lane to Camden then my lane home.

This rider takes out his phone and misses the lights going green by seconds. That holds me up and also the driver behind me. Now when I move onto the Camden rd I'm moving to the outside lane. Usually this is fine as the good drivers have stopped before the box in order that cyclists have a fraction more to get ahead.
That's the point of the box is it not.

This time the driver quite rightly has started to move whilst I'm stuck behind the rider. When I eventually move the driver is right up my rear and I'm moving towards the outside lane. I hear the driver shouting at me and saying I should be in the bus lane. I shout back I'm turning right, he then tells me I should be indicating that. If I did that I would be doing so as if I was about to do a U turn. Anyway I want both hands on my bike as there is a hill and I need my wits about me. More words were exchanged I got home in one piece.

Who was in the wrong here, as far as I'm concerned it was the rider in the box for cyclists on his phone and taking away the fraction of time that helps cyclists to get home safely.

 

[thelarkbox]

Didnt quite follow the U turn logic in para-5 above , but eveyone can err on occasion, and dicks can drive 4x and 2x wheeled vehicles.

If i understand the scenario above, yes you should have been indicating your intent to move right even if you think some may misunderstand your intent for a Uturn as that is a far more significant maneuver requiring more attention from fellow road users.. So while not ideal woud be more safe.

Not to excuse the chap on his phone misusing the cyclist box, and bad timing bringing you and they together..

**** happens, try and exit with a smile and not a scowl even if its forced.
(edit that last bit is more a reminder to myself.. i dont always succeed there..)

 

[flecc]

The post you're referring to, you first mention motorcyclist and the further on you mention two wheelers. I assumed you were still talking bikers. Yes I did miss the point you made about turning left. To which the majority of injuries happen to cyclists. No decent biker should be in that position.

Now we keep mentioning the white line. Just to clarify are we talking about the same line. The one I refer to is the final one at the lights and not at the start of the box.

This is my personal experience of an incident where a moped rider is stopped in front of me at a very busy set of lights. It's a road going onto the Camden road near the Holloway prison, that's was gone even then.
I always turn left to go up the Camden but have to cross two lanes to get to the right turning lane that gets me home. Bus lane , lane to Camden then my lane home.

This rider takes out his phone and misses the lights going green by seconds. That holds me up and also the driver behind me. Now when I move onto the Camden rd I'm moving to the outside lane. Usually this is fine as the good drivers have stopped before the box in order that cyclists have a fraction more to get ahead.
That's the point of the box is it not.

This time the driver quite rightly has started to move whilst I'm stuck behind the rider. When I eventually move the driver is right up my rear and I'm moving towards the outside lane. I hear the driver shouting at me and saying I should be in the bus lane. I shout back I'm turning right, he then tells me I should be indicating that. If I did that I would be doing so as if I was about to do a U turn. Anyway I want both hands on my bike as there is a hill and I need my wits about me. More words were exchanged I got home in one piece.

Who was in the wrong here, as far as I'm concerned it was the rider in the box for cyclists on his phone and taking away the fraction of time that helps cyclists to get home safely.

A one off unique occasion so hardly a major inconvenience in all your journeys. I prefer all two wheeler riders to be able to use the safety of that reserved box or even stop ahead of it when there is doubt about being seen from a high cab truck. Most of the powered ones I see doing it in in London seem to be mopeds, often on deliveries

Clearly I'm a much more patient and even tempered a person than you, since such minor things don't bother me, so long as everyone on the roads completes their journey safely.
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