35 companies offering Bosch drive bikes

[eddieo]

The number of companies offering the new Bosch drive sytem has now reached 35.

Panasonic must be feeling the pain now.....

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[flecc]

That's for certain Eddie, and the new Impulse from Kalkhoff will only add to the pain. Given how exchange rates are against Panasonic at the moment, they may not be to troubled by this for a while, given what a tiny part of their business these units are. They almost completely dropped out once before when Giant stopped using their unit, but them bounced back with the new version which dominated the crank drive market for 4 years. They could repeat that when market conditions are more favourable, especially if Bosch don't do something about their battery capacity and price.

 

[eddieo]

I dont think the prices are bad, certainly a lot cheaper then 36v Panasonic

Battery also a bit of a red herring, unless you go on extended rides then you have 2? probably a better option anyway as why carry a heavy battery around all the time, when you only do long journeys 20% of the time. They need to do something about battery price though, that is shocking!
S class Panasonic came out is 2009 and they had a smaller battery then the Bosch, cant remember to many complaints.

mine did about 25 miles, similar to the DaaHub so bikes well matched. but that was always on highest setting and I am unfit and heavy....So easy to improve on that if you need the range. While many would like to see a bit bigger battery, bikes still becoming very popular and certainly does not put me of.

over on German pedelec, have seen that Kalkhoff now have a bike for granddad (impulse) as well as grandma (Panasonic). I dont think the impulse is getting anyone that excited, as from what I have read it is very soft and described as a bit like turbo lag in a car. as Kalkhoff have no sports model with this drive, this makes sense I think.

Anyway its not an original drive, it is a development of the Daum drive (Kalkhoff bought into the company)

 

[flecc]

I think battery capacity is about market perceptions, someone sees one with 8 Ah, another with 15 Ah, and the weight very little different, they are attracted to the larger one, despite it not being needed by most as you say Eddie. Ask 50cycles which Kalkhoff battery they sell most, the 8 Ah or the 18 Ah, and you can guess their answer!

Germans might be happy to pay Bosch price for 8 Ah, but outside of the odd enthusiasts, the British won't.

 

[eddieo]

You dont really notice the battery price until you need to buy a replacement though do you. I have certainly changed my mind about lugging a heavy battery around as I hardly ever cycle more then 10-15 miles, unless away in the camper. For me, far more important is the weight and handling of the bike

 

[flecc]

With Li-polymer here's so little difference in battery weights now though. From 8 to 18 Ah on the Panasonic units only means from 2 kilos to 3.1 kilos, the difference negligible for most.

 

[danfoto]

I've just spent too long smurfing the web and still not found the answer, so I have to ask you guys - how much are we talking about for these 'ere Bosch batteries then?

 

[flecc]

I'm not up to date on that at the moment, but I think they started out at about £600 for their 8 Ah one. I believe Eddie spotted one supplier at about £480 very recently, but they are usually much more.

The Kalkhoff 18 Ah is £525, but with 26 volts it's 468 Wh.

The Bosch with 36 volts is 288 Wh, so only 62% of the size for generally higher prices.
.

 

[eddieo]

With Li-polymer here's so little difference in battery weights now though. From 8 to 18 Ah on the Panasonic units only means from 2 kilos to 3.1 kilos, the difference negligible for most.

I did not realise that, I was comparing with the standard 14Ah 4.5 Kg type battery

I still prefer the bosch powered bikes though (with the exception of Flyer X class) as most around 20kg which suits me fine.....

was looking at step through 2011 Sahel 15Ah for £1500 (Germany) for the wife, until I found out it was over 25Kg, nice looking in black and red with big apple tyres. Pro connect step through is 21Kg but as nearly as expensive as Bosch, no suspension and no off road capability really....

So probably going for Haibike Xduro or Trekking, once weather improves I will get over for a test....

 

[piotrmacheta]

I have to agree having 2 (or 3) smaller batteries makes more sense that lugging a big one around everywhere but it's definately an expensive way of doing it. I have 3 ezee batteries and very rarely take more than 1 with me.

 

[danfoto]

I think they started out at about £600 for their 8 Ah one. I believe Eddie spotted one supplier at about £480 very recently, but they are usually much more.

Jesus Christus auf dem Fahrrad! Methinks they are 'avin' a larf ...

 

[flecc]

Jesus Christus auf dem Fahrrad! Methinks they are 'avin' a larf ...

Yes, all the way to the bank!

 

[eddieo]

I see that Gepida on the list, have 6 Bosch models for 2012. Maybe some may make there way here from the likes of E Bikes direct etc...

I havent had to pay for a new battery as yet as we normally change bikes before they peg out.....

 

[flecc]

I'm not surprised about that Eddie, Gepida haven't had much success with the Yamaha crank unit bikes. I'll be interested to see their pricing if they arrive here in the UK.

 

[Scottyf]

Interesting update Eddio,
Would like to have a go on the Bosch unit powered bike just to see what its like.

Glad there is more support for the crank driven bikes. Makes sense after all to drive through the chain.

Suprised there's not more companies willing to re-cell old batteries with more conventional Lipo or other cells. Most could make a dent amount compared to the RRP replacement cost.

Still it must be making waves for more companies to be adopting the units.

 

[flecc]

Suprised there's not more companies willing to re-cell old batteries with more conventional Lipo or other cells.

There may be a better chance with some types shortly, amongst others for example, the Kalkhoff batteries use standard dimension 18650 cells in series parallel arrays, battery capacity varied by cell capacities rather than cell numbers.

Depending on how they are joined, recelling may become an economically viable commercial possibility.

 

[banbury frank]

Hi 20,001 well done

Frank

 

[flecc]

Not yet Frank, that was still a few short, this being 19,989.

Later this week.

 

[eddieo]

Re the price ..this seems to be moving in the right direction, with the Hercules Roberta which seems popular in Germany, now available for under 1700€ which is under £1500. Probably 2011 model

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