Hi. I am new to this and need to get a bike for commuting to work - 18miles each way. fairly gentle just a 2 mile hill at the end. I would like to be able to do 20-25mph with assistance. I can charge up at work. where do I start? i am fairly mechanically minded (motorbikes). Are kits a good idea? I can get assistance through cycle to work. many thanks.
35mile winter commute - help
- Thread starter Genesis750
- Start date
Got to remember legal assisted limit is 15mph but most commercial bikes will do a bit more than that. Getting above 20mph takes a fair bit of power which will shorten range, I believe the Panasonic powered bikes are now available in a 'high power' model and can be tweaked easily with gearing changes....however they can be pricey if on a budget which means looking at a DIY kit... but with a kit you will have far more flexibility when specifying the configuration and setup, downside is you'll have to be the engineer with no fall back on a dealer if things go wrong...also maybe no cycle to work scheme unless you can get the donor bike on it. Alternatively the Alien Aurora is getting some good reports on here but its not exactly road legal.....
Last edited:
It's also bloody heavy and it'll take a fair amount of leg input to maintain a speed of 20-25mph on anything but flat roads, not to mention the reduction in range if using high power full time.
If you're fit enough to get those speeds I wonder whether the motor is going to be of that much use to you, but hey, I'm pretty new to this myself and I'm sure they'll be a more experienced view soon.
Drop the speed requirement to 15mph or so, allow a little over an hour for the journey and have a charger at both ends and it's possible with any number of off the shelf bikes and kits.
But, a recumbent or racing bike ridden by somebody who's fit and prepared to put the effort in (with a shower at work!) could do this. So although we're now getting illegal for e-bikes adding some assist to that ought to be possible. The problem is that I don't know of anything off the shelf that really works well for those. You're into not just a home build, but perhaps home construction as well. There are people out there home brewing RC friction drives, RC chain drives, seriously over-amping controllers and hub motors that kind of get you there at the cost of unreliability and lots of work.
See the thread about Zero motorcycles as well. At a price, pure electric scooters and motorcycles are just beginning to appear with just enough range to meet your requirements. If it was me, I'd just get a second hand Burgman 400, customise it a bit and use that. And give up on trying to do it electric for a few years.
I'd like though to explore more a couple of E-Bike options.
1) A racing bike with a small, light, low power assist. Something like a small Bafang or Tongxin hub with a small wheel motor wind in a large rim, 48v ecrazyman controller and a custom Ping battery. The aim being to get some assist up to 30mph or so and enough power to help you up the hills even though it won't just zoom up on it's own. And with the overall bike still light enough that it's seriously fast with no assist.
2) A recumbent with some aerodynamics and more power. In the right 'bent weight should be less of a problem so there's more potential for speed and hill climbing ability. Improving the aerodynamics should seriously help efficiency in the 20-30mph range.
Neither of those will be especially cheap, you'll have to hunt down suppliers but they are perhaps do-able with the current state of the art.
But, a recumbent or racing bike ridden by somebody who's fit and prepared to put the effort in (with a shower at work!) could do this. So although we're now getting illegal for e-bikes adding some assist to that ought to be possible. The problem is that I don't know of anything off the shelf that really works well for those. You're into not just a home build, but perhaps home construction as well. There are people out there home brewing RC friction drives, RC chain drives, seriously over-amping controllers and hub motors that kind of get you there at the cost of unreliability and lots of work.
See the thread about Zero motorcycles as well. At a price, pure electric scooters and motorcycles are just beginning to appear with just enough range to meet your requirements. If it was me, I'd just get a second hand Burgman 400, customise it a bit and use that. And give up on trying to do it electric for a few years.
I'd like though to explore more a couple of E-Bike options.
1) A racing bike with a small, light, low power assist. Something like a small Bafang or Tongxin hub with a small wheel motor wind in a large rim, 48v ecrazyman controller and a custom Ping battery. The aim being to get some assist up to 30mph or so and enough power to help you up the hills even though it won't just zoom up on it's own. And with the overall bike still light enough that it's seriously fast with no assist.
2) A recumbent with some aerodynamics and more power. In the right 'bent weight should be less of a problem so there's more potential for speed and hill climbing ability. Improving the aerodynamics should seriously help efficiency in the 20-30mph range.
Neither of those will be especially cheap, you'll have to hunt down suppliers but they are perhaps do-able with the current state of the art.
Hi
Altho i tend to agree that the distance required is too far for an electric cycle, izips carry two batterries on their rear rack. Unless the op is doing this for environmental reasons, a scooter built for longer distances might be just as cheap as a cycle.
S
Altho i tend to agree that the distance required is too far for an electric cycle, izips carry two batterries on their rear rack. Unless the op is doing this for environmental reasons, a scooter built for longer distances might be just as cheap as a cycle.
S
I understand that use of a driving licence is not an option for Genesis750 in Scotland at this moment, hence the interest in e-bikes.
20 to 25 consistent cruising speed is not really practical on e-bikes in general, especially if wanting a 36 mile trip between charges. 15 to 20 mph powered cruising is practical though illegal, so think in terms of roughly an hour per one way trip.
There are the odd hub motored bikes that can be derestricted to get about 18 mph powered, but a chain drive type like the Panasonic is easier to make faster cheaply and easily.
There's also the S class of e-bike. illegal in the UK but obtainable, at present only from Kalkhoff and Flyer here. These use a modified Panasonic system with versions of each can cruise at either 21 or 25 mph powered. Expensive though, right at the top of e-bike prices.
The Kalkhoff one that can do that 25 mph is the Pro Connect "S" DualDrive.
.
20 to 25 consistent cruising speed is not really practical on e-bikes in general, especially if wanting a 36 mile trip between charges. 15 to 20 mph powered cruising is practical though illegal, so think in terms of roughly an hour per one way trip.
There are the odd hub motored bikes that can be derestricted to get about 18 mph powered, but a chain drive type like the Panasonic is easier to make faster cheaply and easily.
There's also the S class of e-bike. illegal in the UK but obtainable, at present only from Kalkhoff and Flyer here. These use a modified Panasonic system with versions of each can cruise at either 21 or 25 mph powered. Expensive though, right at the top of e-bike prices.
The Kalkhoff one that can do that 25 mph is the Pro Connect "S" DualDrive.
.
18 miles
I do that distance on an electric bike 2-3 times a week. The speed however I do not do unless down hill - of which there are many opportunities (I go over the chiltern hills, so it is all hills - mostly up it always seems). In derestricted mode I can average 18 miles an hour on the flat - faster downhill, slower up hill, and will not run out of power, though having had my battery 18 months I do notice I have a bit less power at the end than I used to.
I have a wisper 905se, which manages fine with the distance, but I would expect many other bikes to do that as well, with some effort.
I do that distance on an electric bike 2-3 times a week. The speed however I do not do unless down hill - of which there are many opportunities (I go over the chiltern hills, so it is all hills - mostly up it always seems). In derestricted mode I can average 18 miles an hour on the flat - faster downhill, slower up hill, and will not run out of power, though having had my battery 18 months I do notice I have a bit less power at the end than I used to.
I have a wisper 905se, which manages fine with the distance, but I would expect many other bikes to do that as well, with some effort.
Agree with many of the comments here. My commute on the Aurora is 8.5 miles each way. It will do both ways back comfortably on a single charge even in high power mode (using a mixture of throttle and pedal-assist) so would probably be OK for you in terms of range, but 20 mph on the flat is all you should expect (my mean speed over multiple trips, 450 accumulated miles, is 18.2 mph).
Kalkhoff Agattu
Hi, I have a Technium privilege, aka Kalkhoff Agattu aka Raleigh Dover - having changed the front cog, I can easily travel on the flat, pedalling at 20+mph. And I'm not a strong cyclist. I can't recommend it highly enough. Tangent on here has also changed the rear cog and probably does even more. Carpetbagger has also changed the cogs and could probably advise. And I think Lloyd had some Raleigh Dovers on offer in the classified section a while ago, if there are any left.
Hi, I have a Technium privilege, aka Kalkhoff Agattu aka Raleigh Dover - having changed the front cog, I can easily travel on the flat, pedalling at 20+mph. And I'm not a strong cyclist. I can't recommend it highly enough. Tangent on here has also changed the rear cog and probably does even more. Carpetbagger has also changed the cogs and could probably advise. And I think Lloyd had some Raleigh Dovers on offer in the classified section a while ago, if there are any left.
toooo much to grasp
See - no wonder most folk get put off. Its far from straight forward. Many thanks to those who have inputed so far. To clarify - no driving licence in near future (SP30). 18 miles each way, in winter, in Scotland. 50 years old on Thursday. better than average fitness but not a cyclist (as a 500km tour in France last month proved). I expect to spend over £1000. hoping for light weight which with peddle input can go 20-25mph. not expecting to just sit there! Wondering about things like direct drive; chain to front cog; LiPo batteries; spoke breakages; how easy are they to cycle when no power etc etc. Some of commute could be off road so strict legality (I understand 15mph and 250kw?) is not essential - and yes I should know better. Aurora / Alien dealer <10km away so going in Tomorrow.
See - no wonder most folk get put off. Its far from straight forward. Many thanks to those who have inputed so far. To clarify - no driving licence in near future (SP30). 18 miles each way, in winter, in Scotland. 50 years old on Thursday. better than average fitness but not a cyclist (as a 500km tour in France last month proved). I expect to spend over £1000. hoping for light weight which with peddle input can go 20-25mph. not expecting to just sit there! Wondering about things like direct drive; chain to front cog; LiPo batteries; spoke breakages; how easy are they to cycle when no power etc etc. Some of commute could be off road so strict legality (I understand 15mph and 250kw?) is not essential - and yes I should know better. Aurora / Alien dealer <10km away so going in Tomorrow.
Not if you stick to a legal bike or system, then it can be very straight forward.
It's when you want to go outside the legal design parameters that life gets complicated. Rather like with cars, buy one new from the showroom and just use it and there's usually no problem. But if wanting to upgrade the performance with a stage 2 or stage 3 conversion, life can get very complicated.
.
Alien would seem a good choice given your location and would hit your budget. Most E-Bikes are not lightweight though, in the main 25Kg or so and a bit of a beast to pedal unassisted, the crank drives are best in this respect though and can come in under 20Kg or even less. Also Cytronex bikes are low weight and can be pushed along without assistance but neither are cheap and well above your budget. You'll also find that to get your target speed on a hub powered bike you will need to up the chain ring as the majority are too low geared and above about 17~18mph there won't be any assistance so it will all be down to leg power...unless you go DIY where this issue can be addressed.
You're thinking about speed the wrong way, you are asking about maximum speed when you should be working out what average speed you need. Ebikes are better at increasing average speed but the nature of them restricts top speed.
The hills you ride will affect your average speed, I find that going over a hill on a pedelec increases my speed as the motor will help me get up at 10-15mph but I can coast down at 30-45mph so that gives me an average of 20-30mph. On the flat I get an 18mph average although I can pedal up to 30mph where needed.
You will need a decent size battery for this, people with 8ah batteries have reported inconvenient power loss on 20 mile rides, with a 14ah battery I only start to notice this after 30 miles and even then it's not a problem.
This is all on an unmodified standard bike with the 'offroad option'. TBH there's not much difference in average speed whether I have the offroad option set or not so another reason not to get too hung up on the top speed issue.
Maintenance is a consideration too, I know this as my commute is about 18 miles each way (depending which route I take). I started with a Wisper 905 and the derailler gears need more looking after than the 906 I have now with the Alfine hub gears, I'm not a fan of hub gears as you need to stop pedalling to change gear but the Alfine hubs don't have this problem.
I'd also not be without disk brakes now on my commuting bike, but this is a contentious topic.
Something essential in Scotland will be winter tyres, there's another thread on this here. And don't forget a couple of hundred quid for suitable budget clothing.
I have nothing special and no mods and I can get 18 miles from the M25 to the City of London an hour if the traffic isn't too bad, over a few minor hills and loads of traffic lights. With the right clothing on I can be very comfortable at minus 6 degrees, more comfortable then the train would be and the winter tyres mean I can ride where it's too slippery for people to walk.
There's nothing (apart from budget) stopping you doing it and as I found enjoying it.
The hills you ride will affect your average speed, I find that going over a hill on a pedelec increases my speed as the motor will help me get up at 10-15mph but I can coast down at 30-45mph so that gives me an average of 20-30mph. On the flat I get an 18mph average although I can pedal up to 30mph where needed.
You will need a decent size battery for this, people with 8ah batteries have reported inconvenient power loss on 20 mile rides, with a 14ah battery I only start to notice this after 30 miles and even then it's not a problem.
This is all on an unmodified standard bike with the 'offroad option'. TBH there's not much difference in average speed whether I have the offroad option set or not so another reason not to get too hung up on the top speed issue.
Maintenance is a consideration too, I know this as my commute is about 18 miles each way (depending which route I take). I started with a Wisper 905 and the derailler gears need more looking after than the 906 I have now with the Alfine hub gears, I'm not a fan of hub gears as you need to stop pedalling to change gear but the Alfine hubs don't have this problem.
I'd also not be without disk brakes now on my commuting bike, but this is a contentious topic.
Something essential in Scotland will be winter tyres, there's another thread on this here. And don't forget a couple of hundred quid for suitable budget clothing.
I have nothing special and no mods and I can get 18 miles from the M25 to the City of London an hour if the traffic isn't too bad, over a few minor hills and loads of traffic lights. With the right clothing on I can be very comfortable at minus 6 degrees, more comfortable then the train would be and the winter tyres mean I can ride where it's too slippery for people to walk.
There's nothing (apart from budget) stopping you doing it and as I found enjoying it.
I do my 14 mile trip in 55 minutes without breaking into a sweat. This is on a Kalkhoff Pro Connect with the gear raised by replacing the rear sprocket with a 19 tooth one from the original 23 tooth. I find this gearing just right for commuting and for general use.
Hi,
I changed the motor and hub gears on by Agattu,it is now a different machine, assisting to about 18.5 mph and capable of 20-25 on the flat/downhill and more...I reckon you could do the journey both ways off one charge but best to do half way if you can. If you have a shed load of cash available you could always get the 18a battery which definitely wouldn't need a charge halfway.... When it comes to the crunch its all about how big you pocket is, the bigger the better
I changed the motor and hub gears on by Agattu,it is now a different machine, assisting to about 18.5 mph and capable of 20-25 on the flat/downhill and more...I reckon you could do the journey both ways off one charge but best to do half way if you can. If you have a shed load of cash available you could always get the 18a battery which definitely wouldn't need a charge halfway.... When it comes to the crunch its all about how big you pocket is, the bigger the better
Since fitting the Sunlova kit to my standard hybrid bicycle my average is 13.5mph without any real work.
Although it is a legal 15mph 250w kit it will still assist on the throttle at 17mph with a fresh battery charge, after around 25 miles its down to just under 14mph assisted.
Am now adding to my winterisation kit (better lights / thicker gloves / neck warmer / ankle shields etc.).
Almost looking forward to the challenge of some cold weather.
Although it is a legal 15mph 250w kit it will still assist on the throttle at 17mph with a fresh battery charge, after around 25 miles its down to just under 14mph assisted.
Am now adding to my winterisation kit (better lights / thicker gloves / neck warmer / ankle shields etc.).
Almost looking forward to the challenge of some cold weather.
I started my 17-20 mph each way commute in august. On average I'd say I manage 3 days per week but this is mostly due to time. I ride a flyer s which is similar to the pro connect s with a 10am battery and I manage the trip in about 1 hour 15 mins. I have found in the last couple of days that the battery only just makes it but this is with medium assist all the way and I could be more prudent and not lose a lot of time. The new 12 ah panasonic battery would get your one way with a good amount of assist. My commute is generally one of the highlights of my day. The alps looked lovely this evening cover in snow
Related Articles
-
MTF Enterprises announces acquisition of EMU Electric Bikes- Started by: Pedelecs
-
Wisper 806T folding bike wins Which? ‘Best Buy’- Started by: Pedelecs
-
Sustrans calls for protected cycle lanes- Started by: Pedelecs
-
Amazon launch their first UK e-cargo micromobility hub- Started by: Pedelecs
