A new Electric Bike - but which one???

[dirk007]

Hello everyone,

Firstly what a great forum this. I have spent a good few hours trawling through the many threads.

I would class myself as a ‘newbie’ in respect of pedelec/e-bikes. I am close to making my first purchase but thought it would be useful to draw upon everyone’s experiences first.

The makes / models I am considering are:

1). Wisper 905e (£849)
2). Ezee Forza (£1395)
3). Ezee Forte (£1345)

I have studied the various specs of each model and to me (someone with limited engineering knowledge) they seem quite similar. From reading previous threads I understand that actually the parts are reasonably different between Wisper and Ezee bikes in terms of quality, thus this is reflected in the prices.

What perplexes me is that when you compare the bikes from a ‘usage’ perspective they appear to be similar, and in some cases the Wisper outperforms the Ezee bikes in some respects….. by this I mean they are lighter, have slightly better range and battery life is very good (I couldn’t actually find battery life stats on 50cycles website).

My instincts tell me from a performance point of view any of the models would suffice, but from an expense viewpoint the 905e makes more sense… I also gather that both companies are equally pleasant to deal with (in terms of customer service/servicing/fixing problems) so that isn't an issue to me.

Can anyone help me make my mind up??

Many thanks in advance

 

[JohnInStockie]

Hi Dirk

Welcome to the forum.

Those bikes you are looking at are very new to the market, not sure that anyone has ordered one yet. Aside from this forum, the only other place I used to get some insights was the A to B magazine here which I ended up subscribing to, and have personally read every issue cover to cover.

What is your intended usage?

John

 

[dirk007]

Hello John,

I have also looked at the A to B website... there is plenty of info regarding the Ezee range but virtually nothing concerning the Wisper. Out of interest how long have Ezee/50cycles been in the electric bike market?

With regard to the Wisper bike, is the fact they are a new company something I should factor into my buying decision? If anything I quite like the idea of going against the grain....

My usage will be fairly varied... some commuting (15 miles round trip), weekend rides (average 30 miles at a time)... fairly easy riding dotted with the odd big hill.

Dirk

 

[electric.mike]

hi dirk
and welcome to the site, when i first joined i had no faith in ezee bikes, but over the last few months that has changed, if the forza is still available next year it stands a very good chance of being chosen as my next bike, subject to extended range possibilities,
(as flecc might say, the powabyke is destined for a project next year)
i am at the same stage at the moment with wisper as i was with ezee to start with,they have done nothing yet to persuade me to deal with them(that may change).if i was to make a internet purchase i would need the sort of confirmation of a companies good intent that i have seen repeated over and over again by 50cycles on this forum,.
that's not to say wisper will not look after you they probably will, but good reputations take time to build and no time to lose.

this is just my perspective on distance purchases of any item, and probably not the same as any other member of this forum.

mike

 

[dirk007]

Hello mike,

Aside from both companies ‘reputations’ does anyone know how they really compare performance wise. After looking at both websites I have gathered the following stats which are the most important to me.

Wisper: 905e
Weight: 22.6kg
Battery Life: 600-800 charges
Range (assisted): up to 35miles

Ezee Forza/ Forte:
Weight: 26.3kg
Battery Life: 500 charges
Range (assisted): up to 30miles

Once again I have no engineering knowledge, but the 905e does appear to be a better performer. Am I missing something (apart from the £496 if I was to go with the Ezee option)??

Regards

 

[Ian]

Dirk, range figures are subject to a number of variables and figures quoted by suppliers tend to be optimistic and should not be taken too seriously. Some suppliers quote average figures but most will quote the best case scenario. In reality any bike doing 30 miles on a charge is doing so with a lot of help from the rider (Or gravity!).

Likewise many claims of battery life are optimistic and figures can easily be manipulated be measuring under different conditions. There is no reason why batteries of the same type from different manufacturers should have different lifespans if all other things remain equal. The reality with Lithium batteries is that they require care to stand any chance of approaching the typical quoted 500 cycles life.

 

[flecc]

It's the technology rather than the supplier which determines battery performance Dirk.

Both eZee and Wisper use the same Lithium-ion manganese type of battery, and the performance will probably be similar.

It's important to compare like with like when assessing bike weight.

The Wisper is without mudguards lights etc, and has less gears, so weight is saved on all of those. It's well suited to shorter riders as it has a compact frame, so may well use less metal in that.

So those things should be born in mind, do you need mudguards and lights, which cost extra on the Wisper, how well does each bike fit you? Do you need a higher quality 8 speed gear system to cope with hills, or the basic quality six speed?

Basically we have two marketing models here, eZee using the one they've used for several years, a complete package, and Wisper, a quite new company using a minimum package model with some of the differences available as extras.
.

 

[Baboonking]

Hi Dirk

A couple of you might want to think about are.

The ezee has a 22 mph boost button. nominally for off road purposes, as far as i can tell the whispter does not.

Whatthe battery warranty is on either bike. Both claim various cycle lifes. The cycle life claim is pretty meaningless if the warranty period is so short that it would be next to impossible use the bike enough to get that number of cycles. The chemistry both battery's use (lithium manganese)is very new and I have seen not any information on how long it lasts. The best guesses seem to come from comparing it to the much older lithium cobalt chemistry. which is about 3 years calender life and 500 cycles.

 

[JohnInStockie]

Hi Dirk

Personally I am suspicious of any spplier that makes claims that as yet seem unfounded. Both the Wisper and the Ezee bikes are new to the market, and that means to me that I'll believe what the users of these bikes say over the suppliers any day.

There are a couple of things I am suspicous of:-

Wisper: 905e - The weight - seems soo light, how much will it weigh when you put all the stuff you need to comute on it? Battery Life: 600-800 charges - Hmmm, the technology is yet to be tested that far. Range (assisted): up to 35miles - I bet I could'nt get 35 miles on it!

Ezee Forza/ Forte: Range (assisted): up to 30miles - again not with me on it!

When I see review after review saying Im wrong, then I will believe it. So all I would be left with is reputations from user experience. As yet, Wisper havent really got one because they are so new to the scene, and 50 cycles have a good one. So I would have more faith in the 50 cycles as they dont want to lose the credibility that they have built up.

At the end of the day, they both seem to be good bikes, but personally I would go for the Forza.

By the way, I have a Giant Twist, so I am not biased at all.

Hope this helps

John

 

[nigel]

Nigel

Hi dirk
at the moment its a more powerfull bike 36 volt bike which is normally a bit more heavy or a 24 volt leccy bike less power but lighter at the moment thats how things stand in the world of electric bikes as the saying goes caught between the devil and the deep blue sea i THINK NIGEL

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Please try one!

Hi Dirk

Even though we have been working on the bike for nearly three years we have only been selling it for about 6 months so we haven't had time to create a reputation!

To this end,

I would be delighted to send you a bike to try.

If you like it we would take your payment, if you don't we will collect it at no cost to you.

Or if it's easier you can go to Cambridge and try it (Wisper Knight Rider is the same vehicle) or come to the new forest or Swanscombe.

Best regards David

 

[JohnInStockie]

Hi Dirk

Even though we have been working on the bike for nearly three years we have only been selling it for about 6 months so we haven't had time to create a reputation!

To this end,

I would be delighted to send you a bike to try.

If you like it we would take your payment, if you don't we will collect it at no cost to you.

Or if it's easier you can go to Cambridge and try it (Wisper Knight Rider is the same vehicle) or come to the new forest or Swanscombe.

Best regards David

Well you cant say fairer than that!

It would be cool if both Ezee and Wisper offered say a 7 day trial bike, or a 30 day no quibble money back offer like you see on those shopping channels, then we would all get to try your bikes and buy accordingly.

John

 

[electric.mike]

wisper bikes

Hi Dirk

Even though we have been working on the bike for nearly three years we have only been selling it for about 6 months so we haven't had time to create a reputation!

To this end,

I would be delighted to send you a bike to try.

If you like it we would take your payment, if you don't we will collect it at no cost to you.

Or if it's easier you can go to Cambridge and try it (Wisper Knight Rider is the same vehicle) or come to the new forest or Swanscombe.

Best regards David

well done wisper lets hope the time comes when your reputation matches ezee, we need more reputable dealers out there.

mike

 

[flecc]

I echo John and Mike's comments.

Nice one David at Wisper, there's no better illustration of confidence than that for Dirk.
.

 

[clarkscars]

try before you buy

Further to this thread, I have a Wisper Bike 905e and it comes complete with everything, mudguards, bell, lock, tools, helmet and parcel carrier! I presume you took the discount rather than the goodies..

They also let me try the bike for 3 days before I purchased, and didnt take any money until I said I would have it!!

I understood that when I bought it there would be discount if I didn't have all of the "extras". This is also in all of the internet sales sites this bike is on.

I bought it from their shop in New Milton about 4 months ago and have had great service. I am 61, just over 19 stones and 6ft 4" and travel 6 miles a day to work with some pretty steep hills, with case and lunch in tow!

I charge the battery after every 2 days although it never shows empty, so I would guess I would get 28-30 miles plus 'til flat! Slimmer people would get more I guess.

For the record I manage a cab firm and this is the only excercise I get so peddaling was not a strong point!

I did try many of the others but the look of them were not to my liking, I was also told by the Wisper guys that they designed this bike and are the importers as well as distributors, hence the vast difference in cost between the others.

In short, the bike is great for me, it was loads lighter than any other I tried and would reccomend it to anyone

Regards Alan Manders

 

[flecc]

Thanks for sharing this performance information Alan, and I'm pleased that you're having such a good experience. Certainly I'd expect the bike to give a good range in that fairly flat area that I'm familiar with, but it's common for e-bike range to drop markedly in steep hill areas. I mention this as a precautionary note for others, and it's something true for all makes of e-bikes.

I was aware of the price structure differences between the company's website and their ebay entries, but base my statements on the website.

Distributors are usually the importers as well, but in virtually every case the distributor/importer is NOT the manufacturing company, so there's virtually always two businesses in the supply chain. Where a dealer is involved as in your case, there's three. As a businessman yourself you'll appreciate the importance of ensuring there is no misinformation given here. For example, your bike was previously marketed as the Knight Rider and I understand that the Chinese manufacturer has offered their products to other importers previously. Of course Wisper do have design input, as do other distributors on their respective products.
.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Try before you buy

Hi Alan

I thought the idea of buying a Wisper and pedaling to work was to lose weight?!!

Great to hear from you again, there is going to be a E bike rally at Sammy Miller's on July 15th, it would be good to see you there.

Best regards David

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Hi Flecc

Hi Flecc

To put this to bed once and for all.

Wisper Electric Vehicle Company (China) Ltd (WEVCCO) designed the 905e and own the tooling.

Wisper Electic Vehicle Company Limited own 67% of WEVCCO 33% is owned by our Chinese partners. Hence we are, very positively, the manufacturer.

The Knight Rider is a Wisper Works 905e and they are supplied directly from our Swanscombe warehouse to one of our dealers.

You can buy copies of anything in China, would you like an "Ezee Tork" made for you, as you seem to be so keen on them? Or maybe you would like a "Sony Ipod" or a "Gucci" hand bag or a "Rolex" watch, they are all available! HOWEVER - none of them are as good as the real thing.

If you would like a "Tork" or a "Liv" I am sure we could get one that looks almost exactly the same, however they would not be a patch on the real Tork or Liv, which are super products.

Regarding the hill climbing abilities of all ebikes, yes they are not as good going up steep hills as they are on the flat.

However the lightweight, high speed brushless motor we use is superb at hill climbing as you would discover if you ever took us up on or countless offers of a test ride.


As always very best regards David

 

[flecc]

Thank you for the clarification of the trading situation that exists now David.

I don't know how you got the idea that I was so keen on the Torq, since on entry after entry in this site I've been critical of it's steep hill climb capabilities, this of course being the inevitable result of overgearing for speed which I've endlessly explained. I've also published it's comparative climb figures with other bikes, and had your 905e been around when I did that, it could have been included in the chart and in that case would have joined the others which are better climbers.

That's due to it having a normally geared Hall effect motor, used by most e-bikes these days, which in most cases also qualify for the same adjectives you've used. This being an immature market, e-bike information in the UK is heavy with hype often evidenced as adjectives liberally sprinkled around, and I have always identified that whenever it crops up or is suspected. I cannot exclude Wisper from that process in a site which primarily exists for consumers. You have the right of reply which I'm glad you exercise fully.

As you see above in an earlier entry, I'm not slow to praise where praise is due, as it was in respect of the service you were offering.

I don't need to try it to know from it's components that the 905e is a sound, powerful electric bike which compares well with many others on the market. It inevitably has a mix of technical advantages and disadvantages like any other product, though oddly enough you never seem to mention it's biggest advantage, and were previously reticent about another advantage, leaving me in the dark although I'd asked for that information. Those genuine advantages are worth more to consumers than all the adjectives in the OED.

Likewise there's the disadvantage to prospective customers of the confusion of different pricing models in different locations, for which I can see no balancing advantage.
.

 

[JohnInStockie]

fyi - It appears that some bike shops STILL have the old version of the Giant Twist in stock. Just noticed both the Comfort GTS and the Lite GTS for sale this website.