A vision of the future of cycling in London

[Mussels]

That's what I had this morning and it wasn't great, the cycle lanes were carrying about twice as many bikes as usual and it was congested. The lanes are too narrow to allow overtaking, frequent oncoming traffic meant the other lane wasn't available much and closely matched speeds meant overtaking became a technical manoevre when it should be an effortless glide past. There was also less room at the lights leaving bikes stuck between cars, when the cars start changing lanes mid junction then it gets quite chaotic and a bit messy. I was also suprised to see a lot of strong and fast riders, lots of competition and testosterone on the narrow paths will drive other people away from bikes.
My riding became more agressive and there was less room for error and tempers were shorter, I got annoyed with an idiot motorbike rider who was blocking my way and rode up the middle of a dual carriageway to get past him.
Boris wants more people to take up cycling but whilst the infrastructure looks good it appears to be designed for light use only.

 

[HarryB]

It was an interesting journey in I agree but there were many more cars than usual and I think that is more of a problem. Also there were a great many amateur cyclists on the road or 'numpties' as I prefer to call them. I actually think the motorcyclist are the worst offenders in terms of using the cycle lanes, ASLs and generally being inconsiderate.

 

[rog_london]

I was an interesting journey in I agree but there were many more cars than usual and I think that is more of a problem. Also there were a great many amateur cyclists on the road or 'numpties' as I prefer to call them. I actually think the motorcyclist are the worst offenders in terms of using the cycle lanes, ASLs and generally being inconsiderate.

I use public transport mainly to get around in London - today I decided to give it a miss. Normally here to Euston is no problem (London Midland) but today of course, bang on cue, there was a signalling problem up the road at Carpenders Park (correct spelling). The Internet does have its uses.

Back to the point - I drive, run a motorbike, and cycle. I'm generally well behaved when using the first two but I'm nowhere near as tolerant on a bike. Is it the 'small dog on a lead' complex lurking within? It's an odd feeling understanding all three viewpoints pretty well, but it doesn't always help.

There's also a problem implied in the quote - cyclists you may encounter vary from total novices to seriously aggressive and sometimes positively dangerous individuals. No category of road user is innocent, IMO.

Rog.

 

[HarryB]

There's also a problem implied in the quote - cyclists you may encounter vary from total novices to seriously aggressive and sometimes positively dangerous individuals. No category of road user is innocent, IMO.

Rog.

I agree that in the end everybody is an individual and I have encountered some serously obnoxous cyclists. However there is precous little road space allocated to cyclists and the ASLs are there as a refuge for cyclists - this is there for safety so I object to motorcyclists blocking them up.

 

[rog_london]

I agree that in the end everybody is an individual and I have encountered some serously obnoxous cyclists. However there is precous little road space allocated to cyclists and the ASLs are there as a refuge for cyclist - this is there for safety so I object to motorcyclists blocking them up.

Point taken, and some cycle lanes are supposed to be for cyclists only, but in many cases (perhaps TOO many cases) they're bounded by dotted lines, which means anybody can park over them and use them.

Also, as has been often said before, the very worst road surface on any given road is usually within about three feet of the kerb, and as a cyclist I often find it quite difficult to remain in a cycle lane even if there are no obvious obstructions. The fact that it's designated for cyclists' use can be a curse in itself, as there are other road users who feel as strongly about US being in THEIR alleged space as we do about them being in ours.

Oh, and trust me, nobody loves a motorcyclist either. Don't feel you're being victimised on a bike. Welcome to the club.

Rog.

 

[flecc]

My vision of the future of cycling in London and overcoming the lack of space for facilities goes like this.

Wherever there are fairly parallel alternative routes, the more direct one will be for cyclists and relevant bus routes only, so serving cyclists and pedestrians. The more indirect one for all other motor traffic including any remaining bus routes.

That would create more motor vehicle congestion, maybe causing more to cycle and e-bike.
.

 

[HarryB]

I used to ride a motorcycle in London, I drive, take buses, tubes, trains, drove vans around London, I have even passed an HGV1 test. So I like to see all sides however I have seen so many cycling accidents (including somebody under a lorry) so loath agressive drivers and riders.

 

[Mussels]

I got this from a motorcycle forum this morning:

This morning, I had a couple of guys in particular who had decided that they were going to stop all bikers getting past them along embankment. They blocked the inside and middle filter lanes, quite deliberately, to prevent scooters and motorbikes getting through...and would occasionally open up a little gap ahead of them to allow another cyslist to slide through. Eventually, I got past around the outside only for one of the cyclists to chase me down and filter past my right hand side, between me and the car to my right (hitting me and the car in the process).... when I was already filtering between to queues of cars behind another cyclist. He then stop infornt of me, just about sideways, also stopping the car to the left (back wheel blocking me, front wheel blocking the car on the left), turned around and smiled at me, and stayed there until about 20 cyclists (and a couple of scooters he shouted at) and managed to merge from the curbside to the middle filter lane. I was then stuck behind them again. Fuckwit. Seriously....I would have been gone and out of his way (I was filtering faster than him throughout, except when stuck behind a gap neither of us could fit through.)

The guy who wrote it is quite level headed so it's probably not exaggerated, I'd like cyclists like this to have their bikes thrown into the Thames.

 

[fcurran]

I used to travel to London weekly by train and do visits to bike shops on a Powabyke. I have to say that cycling in London was one of the single most worst experiences I have ever had to experience. The roads are shocking, pot holes 4-5 inches deep, road works everywhere, cars accelerating as fast as they can from lights to the next set of lights where again they brake hard and to a stand still. Vans driving by allowing nothing for a cyclist ( I have lost count the number of times my elbow has been clipped). Pedestrians just walk out infront of you and look at you as if you are in the wrong! Don't even get me started on the London buses, especially the bendy buses! They fly up alongside you then pull over to the nearside to drop passengers off resulting in me being put into the kurb several times. Its not only my safety that worries me when cycling in London, its also my health. The fumes and particles emitted from all vehicles result in me covered in muck and I find myself coughing up all sorts of black bits. These bits end up in my nose and eyes too!

I do also feel sorry for motorists though as a number of cyclists ride like idiots with no regard for their own safety or those around them. They run lights, weave between cars and lorries who will have no idea they are there and ride in the middle of the road holding everything up (presumably for their own safety!). Cycle couriers are probably the main culprits, but then their schedules are tough Im sure.

Cyclists and motor vehicles will never get on in London while on the same roads Im afraid! Please note my experiences are based in central London from Paddington to the City, Hampstead and Stoke Newington in the North, down to Wandsworth in the South. I know there are many other wonderful places where you can enjoy cycling in London but these are just my very limited opinions!

Regards

Frank

 

[frank9755]

That's what I had this morning and it wasn't great, the cycle lanes were carrying about twice as many bikes as usual and it was congested. The lanes are too narrow to allow overtaking, frequent oncoming traffic meant the other lane wasn't available much and closely matched speeds meant overtaking became a technical manoevre when it should be an effortless glide past. There was also less room at the lights leaving bikes stuck between cars, when the cars start changing lanes mid junction then it gets quite chaotic and a bit messy. I was also suprised to see a lot of strong and fast riders, lots of competition and testosterone on the narrow paths will drive other people away from bikes.
My riding became more agressive and there was less room for error and tempers were shorter, I got annoyed with an idiot motorbike rider who was blocking my way and rode up the middle of a dual carriageway to get past him.
Boris wants more people to take up cycling but whilst the infrastructure looks good it appears to be designed for light use only.

I agree with that.

My assessment was that there were about three times as many bikes as normal on my route. I adapted my route as a result (for example on the cycle crossing at Hyde Park Corner there were too many bikes to be safe so I thought it was better to take my chances with the cars).

My journey was a bit slower than normal as a result of being held up behind the slower riders. However it is these slower riders who are the targets of efforts to encourage more cycling, not those of us who do it already so, yes, the future will be more like today. I was thinking when I got to work that in, perhaps, 5-10 years time, my 12.5 mile commute across central London may no longer be feasible as cycle traffic increases and speeds inevitably decline as a consequence. We will be looking back to these as the golden years when it was still possible to cycle at full speed on urban roads!

 

[torrent99]

I agree with that.

My assessment was that there were about three times as many bikes as normal on my route. I adapted my route as a result (for example on the cycle crossing at Hyde Park Corner there were too many bikes to be safe so I thought it was better to take my chances with the cars).

My journey was a bit slower than normal as a result of being held up behind the slower riders. However it is these slower riders who are the targets of efforts to encourage more cycling, not those of us who do it already so, yes, the future will be more like today. I was thinking when I got to work that in, perhaps, 5-10 years time, my 12.5 mile commute across central London may no longer be feasible as cycle traffic increases and speeds inevitably decline as a consequence. We will be looking back to these as the golden years when it was still possible to cycle at full speed on urban roads!

Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to sample the traffic this morning as a bad neck is troubling me. (I got the delights of the Northern line instead!)

However, do we not think that as cycle traffic increases then maybe we'll sort out some sort of informal rules to govern cyclists e.g. overtaking "lanes" etc?

Recently I've had to go to a new office in Bankside, which means crossing the dreaded City. At first I tried to follow the route recommended by the TFL automatic route planning engine. This sends you down one way streets backwards. Makes you do illegal right turns and generally mucks you up. I only did this virtually as it was so useless! (google streetview is excellent for this!)

So I tried using the maps you can get from TFL..... well the cycle routes are very pretty... but so sloooow! Traffic lights, loads of junctions, zig zagging in and out. And the state of the roads ! Plus all the problems from the automatic route planner. Great if you've got all day, but useless for a commute.

Finally I've settled on the "by car" route, at least it goes in a straight line with "minimum" traffic lights.


If this is the sort of "safe cycle route" we are being offered to get us cycling to work then it's not going to happen. What we need are cycle "dual carriageways"! Proper A-B routes, on decent tarmac, and without all the mucking about. Not planners after thoughts, focussed on maximum avoidance of traffic, with no clear direction in mind. We can dream

<Rant mode off>

 

[Mussels]

We will be looking back to these as the golden years when it was still possible to cycle at full speed on urban roads!

I remember seeing the same decline in motorbike speeds until there was little advantage left, largely due to the road space being squeezed to provide cycle paths.

 

[HarryB]

If this is the sort of "safe cycle route" we are being offered to get us cycling to work then it's not going to happen. What we need are cycle "dual carriageways"! Proper A-B routes, on decent tarmac, and without all the mucking about. Not planners after thoughts, focussed on maximum avoidance of traffic, with no clear direction in mind. We can dream

<Rant mode off>

Do you think anything will come of the superhighways??

Cycle Superhighways | Transport for London

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/Cycle_Superhighways.pdf

 

[flecc]

Do you think anything will come of the superhighways??

Cycle Superhighways | Transport for London

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/Cycle_Superhighways.pdf

I think they'll happen since they are only a paint job and apparently the budget is in place for them. They were Ken Livingstones plan originally, taken over by Boris Johnson so presumably no politicking involved to slow the plan. Persuading motorists not to block them at side road outlets could be a problem for a while though.
.

 

[flecc]

I was thinking when I got to work that in, perhaps, 5-10 years time, my 12.5 mile commute across central London may no longer be feasible as cycle traffic increases and speeds inevitably decline as a consequence.

This is already the case in parts of cycle friendly Holland where crowds of cyclists can often be seen ambling along the speed of the slowest, unable to do much else for long stretches.

If the plans to increase cycling are any more successful it's bound to happen here unless there's some drastic reallocation of road space.
.

 

[HarryB]

This is already the case in parts of cycle friendly Holland where crowds of cyclists can often be seen ambling along the speed of the slowest, unable to do much else for long stretches.

If the plans to increase cycling are any more successful it's bound to happen here unless there's some drastic reallocation of road space.
.

Notice that in the pictures the lines are dashed not solid so no enforcement can be made. Motorcyclist friends of mine are very keen on telling me how few of the lines are solid so they alway ignore them. I didn't think much of the routes when Ken first proposed them and still dont - still, a nice colour blue...

 

[frank9755]

Recently I've had to go to a new office in Bankside, which means crossing the dreaded City. At first I tried to follow the route recommended by the TFL automatic route planning engine. This sends you down one way streets backwards. Makes you do illegal right turns and generally mucks you up. I only did this virtually as it was so useless! (google streetview is excellent for this!)

So I tried using the maps you can get from TFL..... well the cycle routes are very pretty... but so sloooow! Traffic lights, loads of junctions, zig zagging in and out. And the state of the roads ! Plus all the problems from the automatic route planner. Great if you've got all day, but useless for a commute.

Finally I've settled on the "by car" route, at least it goes in a straight line with "minimum" traffic lights.

If this is the sort of "safe cycle route" we are being offered to get us cycling to work then it's not going to happen. What we need are cycle "dual carriageways"! Proper A-B routes, on decent tarmac, and without all the mucking about. Not planners after thoughts, focussed on maximum avoidance of traffic, with no clear direction in mind. We can dream

<Rant mode off>

Steve,

Remember that the governing philosophy behind cycle route design in this country has generally been to get cyclists off the road and out of the way of the cars. You seem to have fallen into the trap of thinking they are for the convenience of cyclists!

 

[flecc]

Notice that in the pictures the lines are dashed not solid so no enforcement can be made. Motorcyclist friends of mine are very keen on telling me how few of the lines are solid so they alway ignore them. I didn't think much of the routes when Ken first proposed them and still dont - still, a nice colour blue...

All the routes in my area are solid lined, but many motorists still park permanently on them. In all the years they've been in place I only know of one case of a persistent parking houseowner being warned off.

I agree the cycling superhighways probably won't help much. Most of London just doesn't have the space to do much better.

Some of the cycle lanes in Fecn's nearby area were green all over, but I never saw it make much difference to motorist's habits.
.

 

[Mussels]

I think they'll happen since they are only a paint job and apparently the budget is in place for them. They were Ken Livingstones plan originally, taken over by Boris Johnson so presumably no politicking involved to slow the plan. Persuading motorists not to block them at side road outlets could be a problem for a while though.
.

I know the Barking to Tower Gateway route pretty well and it will just be a case of throwing blue paint down and pretending it's all new. I like the statement about improving the road surface, much of the seperate cycle path along that route has a terrible surface and I bet it doesn't get touched. The only recent improvement along that route has been a toucan crossing but it takes so long to change that few people bother with it.

Notice that in the pictures the lines are dashed not solid so no enforcement can be made. Motorcyclist friends of mine are very keen on telling me how few of the lines are solid so they alway ignore them. I didn't think much of the routes when Ken first proposed them and still dont - still, a nice colour blue...

Technically yes but the police occasionally have a ticketing session on Upper Thames Street for motorcycles in the dashed cycle lane, I don't know if anyone has challenged a ticket.

 

[frank9755]

This is already the case in parts of cycle friendly Holland where crowds of cyclists can often be seen ambling along the speed of the slowest, unable to do much else for long stretches.
.

I experienced it for myself just the other week - it didn't happen many times but there were certainly stretches where it was mudguard to mudguard stuff!

However in the Nehterlands my experience was that it is possible to maintain a relatively high average speed because there are so few occasions when the cyclist is obliged to stop. With our love of traffic lights and failure to give cyclists priority over side roads, higher maximum speeds do not necessarily translate to higher average speeds