Advice appreciated : New controller purchase

[crystaljohn]

Earlier this year I bought a 2nd hand electric bicycle without a battery. The bike is a Powacyle Cambridge model,

Electric Bikes from PowaCycle | Cambridge Electric Bike Clearance

which although as standard has a 24 volt battery, after some input from someone on this site , I bought a 36 v battery as I was informed the controller could handle the extra voltage and I would benefit from 50% more power.

This has been working really well up until a few days ago when it stopped working. I am a retired electrician so I have carried out some checks on the electrics to eliminate the common problems.

1. Battery is fully charged and making it's way to the internals of the controller.

2. The brake inhibitor switches are all open circuit when they should be. ( I have eliminated this being a potential problem by pulling out the connector from the wiring harness )

3. The push button micro switch that is part of the throttle/twist grip assembly is working o.k- is open circuit until pressed.

4. All connectors are plugged in and making good contact.

I have removed the controller and examined the circuit board for obvious problems but can't see anything untoward there.
I suppose I might have a faulty f.e.t but don't want to start diagnosing and having to purchase and fit new parts for the following reasons.

This was my first e bike, I took a bit of a punt on buying it second hand very cheaply without the battery, and it's been a huge success, and I have loved riding it. I have pretty bad Emphysema so have very limited lungs, the fact that this bike has a throttle means I can pedal using the cadence sensor to switch on the motor when I am pedalling and when inevitably I can't peddle anymore due to my lungs I can then use the throttle until I get my breath back and repeat.
I do find it slightly tricky as when the power kicks in it's full power straight away with no ability to attenuate it, I have just got used to it being this way, so a combination of using the throttle and peddling with judicious use of the brake inhibitors enable me to have some great ,and some wild rides lol.

So , now it's stopped working, and I suspect the controller, I thought I might as well buy a new controller designed for the 36v battery I have. I thought of this one:

Dilwe 36V/48V 250W Motor Brushless Controller Aluminium Sine Wave Controller Electric Bicycle Brushless Motor Controller For E-bike & Scooter : Amazon.co.uk: Sports & Outdoors

Dilwe 36V/48V 250W Motor Brushless Controller Aluminium Sine Wave Controller Electric Bicycle Brushless Motor Controller For E-bike & Scooter : Amazon.co.uk: Sports & Outdoors

www.amazon.co.uk

now looking at the wiring details of this I notice that there are 3 wires which go to the motor

Dilwe 36V/48V 250W Motor Brushless Controller Aluminium Sine Wave Controller Electric Bicycle Brushless Motor Controller For E-bike & Scooter : Amazon.co.uk: Sports & Outdoors

Dilwe 36V/48V 250W Motor Brushless Controller Aluminium Sine Wave Controller Electric Bicycle Brushless Motor Controller For E-bike & Scooter : Amazon.co.uk: Sports & Outdoors

www.amazon.co.uk

Now my e bike has this as the wiring into the motor. The 3 thicker wires with the bullet connectors I assume match up with the A.B and C in the diagram , but what is the purpose of the other 5 wires contained within the connector block?

Also from their diagram I presume that 'Speed steering handle ' is for the throttle/twist grip ?

and 'Assist sensor' is for the Cadence control?

Any help or advice or ideas gratefully received.

Thanks John.

 

[vfr400]

The block of 5 is the motor hall sensor wires. can you confirm that it was actually connected to a partner?

I wouldn't buy a cheap controller like that. Instead, you can take the opportunity to make your bike into a really nice one for about £65 with one of these. You must buy an LCD and speed sensor to go with it. The rest of the stuff is optional. If you don't have a thumb or half-throttle, I'd recommend the thumb throttle too.

24V/36V 250W 6Mosfets 15A Brushless DC Sine Wave Controller - PSWPOWER.com

www.pswpower.com

Whatever controller you get, cut off all those bullet connectors, then solder the wires directly. You can see that those ones are in a state and have been arcing, which might be what caused your controller to blow.

 

[crystaljohn]

Thanks for your fast reply VFR400, appreciated.

So, the block containing my 5 wires is for the Hall sensor.

If I was to buy the PSW controller and the necessary other components, would it give me the ability to have some control of the power that is fed to my motor by varying the speed of rotation of my crank. This has been a big issue with my original set up?

 

[crystaljohn]

I do understand your point about eliminating the bullet connectors btw, always a potential for bad high resistance connection.

 

[vfr400]

If I was to buy the PSW controller and the necessary other components, would it give me the ability to have some control of the power that is fed to my motor by varying the speed of rotation of my crank. This has been a big issue with my original set up?

Trust me, you don't want a pedal assist that gives power according to how fast you pedal. It sounds sort of logical, but when you try it, you realise why it's absolutely diabolical.

The PSWP one has 5 levels of assist, which are power levels. On level one you get a small amount of assist as soon as you pedal, and on level 5, you get full power as soon as you pedal. Additionally, the motor will become much smoother and quieter, like you got a new one.

I'm guessing that the problem you have now is that your controller gives max power when you pedal, which makes low speed control tricky. You won't have that with the new controller. Nearly all the cheap controllers give max power when you start to pedal even if they have several levels of assist because the levels relate to speed limits, not power limits. That's where the PSWP one is different. It also has a much faster response time.

 

[crystaljohn]

Your Idea sounds excellent VRF. I like the idea of 5 levels of assist.
Yes, my current controller delivers full power as soon as I pedal a couple of rotations, not ideal, only the fact I ride powerful motorcycles has enabled me to deal with this lol.
I'm keen to go ahead with ordering, I'm uncertain of which LED to go with, could you recommend one from the list, bearing in mind I have a 36v battery please.
I will also specify the speed sensor and the left throttle.
I presume I can utilise my existing cadence sensor ?

 

[crystaljohn]

 

[crystaljohn]

This is my existing controller btw

 

[vfr400]

The new controller will be compatible with your throttle and pedal sensor, though you'll probably have to cut off connectors and solder the wires when the connectors don't match.

The LCD3 gives access to all the settings, which is sometimes important.

 

[crystaljohn]

Many thanks for the information VFR. I will order that , I'm off abroad for 5 weeks so hopefully it will have arrived from China by then .
I'm quite happy to cut off any connectors and re-solder where necessary.

 

[AlanRHB]

Great advice as always in this interesting post vfr400... although perhaps not as sophisticated as the Powacyle Salisbury model, this controller that you advise may ? be suitable, when I eventually have a Li-on 36v battery built to replace my 24v - 2X 12v SLAs.
I have the switchable on/off twist grip throttle, and PAS/power switch on the left handle bar, but no led of course.

I may pick your brain again in a month or three, but in the meantime I have saved this post. .. My old Probike Mercury is still going well after your excellent advice in my earlier post. many thanks again.

Good luck in your endeavours crystal john...

 

[vfr400]

The controller I mentioned is a lot more sophisticated the the Powabyke Salisbury one- and much better!

 

[crystaljohn]

@vfr400 I now have the new controller you recommended, and after some cutting of the existing alloy enclosure on my frame; as the wires on the new controller were a little shorter than the old controller, I now have it in situ and nearly all wired up and ready to go.
A couple of questions I would like your assistance with.

1. Can I use the existing crank sensor , it has 6 poles. I did order the a new P.A.S from the same company as I bought the new controller from , but I would need to remove one of the cranks and I don't have the necessary extractor . Also, I figure that the new P.A.S fits over the crank spindle and the flexible spines grip the shaft, but how does the outer case fix to anywhere, there isn't any facility to fix it?

2.I did buy the speed sensor, and have fixed it to my front wheel as it's the only place I can find anywhere where I can get the magnet that is fixed to the spoke in close proximity to the pick up pad. I assume that's O.K?

3. I noticed that when I was checking if the existing 'throttle' was working, whatever configuration I measured the possible combinations of the 3 wires exiting the throttle I could only measure 2.1k, irrespective of moving the throttle position in a rotary motion. I would have expected to see a variance in resistance?

Possibly it was the throttle that was causing my bike not to work and I incorrectly assumed the controller was the issue?

Photo of the new P.A.S I bought

Cheers, John.

fo

 

[crystaljohn]

Update: Now wired everything in correctly.
Switch on -L.C.D screen all working, but when I operate throttle or turn the crank I get an error message: 03 which is Motor hall signal abnormality.

investigation reveals something I hadn't noticed. The Controller plug has 6 wires, my existing hall sensor plug has 5 wires.
All the colours match up Black to Black, Blue to Blue, Red to Red, Yellow to Yellow.

There is a White wire missing from my existing cable from the rear wheel motor, so it can't match up with the White wire which is present on my controller plug.

Any ideas anyone?

 

[Nealh]

The White hall wire is for a speed signal so if the LCD isn't getting a signal for the speed it will throw up hall error, if your hub has not the capability you can wire in a separate wheel speed sensor with a spoke magnet. Connect the Red wire (5v) to the hall Red, Black (Gnd)to the hall Black and the third colour (signal) to the hall White.

 

[crystaljohn]

The White hall wire is for a speed signal so if the LCD isn't getting a signal for the speed it will throw up hall error, if your hub has not the capability you can wire in a separate wheel speed sensor with a spoke magnet. Connect the Red wire (5v) to the hall Red, Black (Gnd)to the hall Black and the third colour (signal) to the hall White.

Thanks for that Nealh
For my clarity: I already have a speed sensor connected to my new controller- with it's own dedicated plug/socket
Would you suggest I remove this and use the speed sensor to wire directly to the Hall plug as you have specified?

 

[Nealh]

If it's the controller in your post #7 above then there isn't a separate speed sensor as you have the white hall wire in the multiplug.
I see a throttle and PAS sensor non of these will operate a speed sensor.
Show us a pic of your bike and speed sensor you talk of.

 

[crystaljohn]

If it's the controller in your post #7 above then there isn't a separate speed sensor as you have the white hall wire in the multiplug.
I see a throttle and PAS sensor non of these will operate a speed sensor.
Show us a pic of your bike and speed sensor you talk of.

Neilh
I am not using the old controller shown in my photo post#7 , I have a new controller now, the one recommended by vfr400: http://www.pswpower.com/ures/dtpic/2016/3F/3F7C.50CBU/44380F_FHGJ4.jpg

You can see the speed sensor on my new controller here:

http://www.pswpower.com/ures/dtpic/2016/3F/3F7C.50CBU/44380F_FHGJ4.jpg

 

[AlanRHB]

Glad to see your topic is still alive crystal john, (but not of course that you are experiencing problems)...
Your old controller looks very similar to mine on the Probike and only 8 wires to/from the rear hub motor and is also 24v, and I have finally decided to follow vfr400 and Nealh's advice and purchase the PSpower controller , LCD3 display ect. but perhaps a bit late to order now as Chinese New Year looms in about three weeks, and anything ordered now MAY be lost in the ether...

is the image in your post a copy of the instructions that came with the new controller, thanks for uploading that as very useful.

I hope that you don't mind me hanging onto your coat tails on this topic, but hopefully it will save me pestering vfr400 and Nealh when I do this work on mine...
Good Luck again John... and thanks to vfr400 and Nealh for their continuing expertise.

 

[danielrlee]

Not sure if this is the cause of your problem, but if you're using a standalone wheel speed sensor, custom parameter P2 should be set to '1'.