Advice sought for a new bike would be welcome

[pwylie]

I have been lurking for a long time & am seeking any advice anyone may care to give.

I am considering a bike to help with a circa 12 mile each way commute. Four long gradual hills but nothing too steep, otherwise mostly flatish. It takes me 60 minutes out & 75 minutes back on my unpowered hybrid. I can manage one way but both ways in a day is too demanding & pinches a little too much time from time with kids. I also own a brompton which I love which takes me to the local train station two miles away. I also have a mini cooper which is a second car. I have lived without a car before (thanks to the brompton) & could do so again easily.

If I could find a reliable year round pedelec I could dispense with the car. Ideally I would like to get the journey time to nearer 45 minues each way. I can recharge the battery at the office too. I travel most weeks for one or two days so it would be used for at least 70 miles a week.

I am 40 and a somewhat lardy 14st. I am able to shower at the office but would like not to need to.

I need not buy a budget bike and reliability is key for me. I have been considering an Ezee Torq or Kalkhoff Tasman. As an alternative the idea of a Heinzmann retrofit on the hybryd is a possibility & is attractive as I need not add another bike to the collection.

Any views or advice would be most appreciated.

 

[musicbooks]

I have been lurking for a long time & am seeking any advice anyone may care to give.

I am considering a bike to help with a circa 12 mile each way commute. Four long gradual hills but nothing too steep, otherwise mostly flatish. It takes me 60 minutes out & 75 minutes back on my unpowered hybrid. I can manage one way but both ways in a day is too demanding & pinches a little too much time from time with kids. I also own a brompton which I love which takes me to the local train station two miles away. I also have a mini cooper which is a second car. I have lived without a car before (thanks to the brompton) & could do so again easily.

If I could find a reliable year round pedelec I could dispense with the car. Ideally I would like to get the journey time to nearer 45 minues each way. I can recharge the battery at the office too. I travel most weeks for one or two days so it would be used for at least 70 miles a week.

I am 40 and a somewhat lardy 14st. I am able to shower at the office but would like not to need to.

I need not buy a budget bike and reliability is key for me. I have been considering an Ezee Torq or Kalkhoff Tasman. As an alternative the idea of a Heinzmann retrofit on the hybryd is a possibility & is attractive as I need not add another bike to the collection.

Any views or advice would be most appreciated.

I've been commuting on my Kalkhoff for nearly three weeks now and loving every minute. I have to cope with a couple of serious hills (Bath) and although some effort is required, I am getting used to the climb each way each day. My commute is about 5-6 miles. Check out my performance report thread. Also, check out the mighty Flecc's review of the bike. I would definitely recommend Kalkhoff, and although there has been a problem with supply, 50Cycles have been brilliant, Their after sales service is superb.
bw
musicbooks

 

[Tiberius]

Hi pwylie,

If you're doing 12 miles/60 mins already, that's an average of 12 mph, which isn't at all bad unassisted. You don't say what the hills are on the route, and I suspect the 75 mins the other way contains a clue.

Anyway, to do it in 45 mins means averaging 16 mph, which is at the high end for an ebike, especially as the motor is supposed to not assist above 15 mph.

Its all going to depend on the hills. If its all on the flat you personally might not gain much time with a legal ebike, but you might not need a shower. But if you have a few hills, an ebike can help you keep up the speed on those and that could make a big difference to the overall time.

BTW, I have an early model Torq.

Nick

 

[Larkspur]

Hi,

I am in a similar position to you in that I have a 14.5 mile each way commute. I'm a little older than you at 46 but quite fit (you sound as though you are too). My aim is to be able to do it in an hour without getting sweaty. As yet I do not have any actual experience of electric bikes, but I have ordered a Kalkhoff Pro Connect. This decision was made sligtly easier because I knew that I wanted a pedelec rather than an e-bike, partly because I want to pedal and partly because I do a have a couple of short but steep hills to negotiate and the panasonic pedelec system is supposed to be the best option for this (from what I've read).

The Pro Connect is roughly 4kg lighter than either of the Agattu models (every little helps). But the other advantage of the Pro Connect over the standard Agattu, but not the Tasman, is that because it is fitted with the 8 speed Shimano hub, which has a significantly wider ratio between top gear and bottom gear, I believe there is greater potential for being able to increase the assisted speed through changing to a smaller rear sprocket, maybe as small as 16 tooth, which would give a comfortable assisted cruising speed of over 16mph and a maximum assisted speed of well over 20mph. The risk of doing this modification is reduction of range, and hill climbing ability, but I'm optimistic that this will not be too much of an issue for me, and if it is then it would be easy to revert to the original sprocket.

Of course you may well be better off with a Torq - I can't really comment, but be aware that there have been issues in the past with them eating batteries (although, from what I've read I believe this is now resolved). They have certainly earned a reputation of being very fast, but this was partly due to being able to derestrict the original models - something which it may not be possible to do quite so easily with the latest model. You'd need to check this.

Hope some of this was useful to you. I'm sure you'll get a lot of other advice from forum members - much of it more knowledgeable than mine.

Chris

 

[burncycle]

my advise is if you are already a regular cyclist but you want to get from A to B quicker by having assist, then you should really go for the Kalkhoff pedelec. Its the best all round ebike by far and if you are a strong cyclist you will get the maximum range from it.
If its only assisted (no pedeling) travel from A to B you want then go for the Torq, though at a much poorer range.
Ive ordered a Pro-Connect !

Regards Bob

 

[HarryB]

Ideally I would like to get the journey time to nearer 45 minues each way.

I also think it is a bit optimistic to get the time down to 45 minutes each way on an electric bike - legally anyway. Your choices seem to be:

-Find a second hand Torq 1
-The Wisper 905SE (possibly a bit small?)
-One of the Kahlkoffs and altering the gearing so you can comfortably pedal over 16 mph

The Torq 1 will give you the best chance of achieving the speed. I don't think any of the Kahlkoffs even with the gearing mod will compete with the Torq and in any case you will be fairly sweaty when you arrive. You could of course build your own bike using a kit.

 

[flecc]

The Panasonic motored bikes like the excellent Kalkhoffs generally average about 12 mph or just a bit over, so wouldn't be any faster than at present, unless you were cycling at above motor assist speed, which would be a bit pointless. My own experience with both Lafree and Kalkhoff was 12 to 12.5 mph averages, and A to B magazines David Henshaw who is a very strong cyclist also returns around 12 mph averages on their's.

On moderate territory like yours, hub motor bikes like the new Torq II can return faster averages of around 15 mph, but you wont get much better on a legal machine. Journey times about 48 there, 60 minutes back at best.

Therefore I don't think you'd get much of a reduction in journey time with a production standard e-bike.

Since your hills are moderate, you could opt for a Kalkhoff with a rear sprocket change to up the assisted speed, but the average speed gain would not be radical, maybe up from 12 mph to 16 mph at most. Journey times 45 / 57 minutes at best, though I think it could be a bit longer.

Using a second hand original Torq I derestricted could up the average to about 17/18 mph at most, but when derestricted the consumption rises and you'd probably need to charge the battery at both ends of the trip. Journey times 42 / 53 minutes at best.

P.S. Just seen Harry's post, I fully agree as you've seen.
.

 

[MaryinScotland]

As others have said, a legal e-bike may not increase your average by much. OF COURSE, no one on this forum would encourage you to use an illegal bike ... but you mentioned Heinzmann retrofit, and the kits come in a wide variety of powers and speeds. Emotivepete on this forum could advise.

I'd be a bit wary of using an "illegal" bike on the roads. I don't imagine the average policeman knows the rules, but if I were ever in an accident, an opposing lawyer would love to be handed an excuse like that for blaming it on me.

Mary

 

[pwylie]

Thanks to all of you for well considered replies.

It looks like the Pro Connect is the most likely candidate and that my ambitions on timing may be a little optimistic. Even if the reduction in time is not as much as I had hoped I presume the work rate will be reduced which will make an each way run a more attractive prospect on a daily basis.

I have some hesitancy in ordering a bike before I am sure it is fit for purpose and might try & get down to 50 Cycles for a test run if they will allow one. I am based near Glasgow. As I travel widely for business this should be feasible.

I started reading AtoB on riding my Brompton which put me on to pedelecs & finding the web site. It is a great resource.

 

[john]

My commute is similar to yours, 12 miles each way with moderate hills. I generally do it in under 45 minutes and I don't need to shower when I get to work.

I use a Nano/TongXin kit with 36V ~14Ah nimh batteries so I don't have to recharge at work.

I have had some problems with reliability, but currently it is working fine and very pleasant to use, no problems pedalling if I do run out of juice.

 

[ElephantsGerald]

I have some hesitancy in ordering a bike before I am sure it is fit for purpose and might try & get down to 50 Cycles for a test run if they will allow one. I am based near Glasgow. As I travel widely for business this should be feasible.

Why not try and get to the Tour De Presteigne on May 17th/18th. All the major suppliers will be there with examples of their range of bikes for you to try out.

Regards,

Elephants.

 

[HarryB]

My commute is similar to yours, 12 miles each way with moderate hills. I generally do it in under 45 minutes and I don't need to shower when I get to work.

I use a Nano/TongXin kit with 36V ~14Ah nimh batteries so I don't have to recharge at work.

I have had some problems with reliability, but currently it is working fine and very pleasant to use, no problems pedalling if I do run out of juice.

Just remind us what wheel size/motor speed combination you are using. 700c and 190rpm?

 

[emotivepete]

As an alternative the idea of a Heinzmann retrofit on the hybryd is a possibility & is attractive as I need not add another bike to the collection.

You could even convert your Brompton with a Heinzmann kit. You would need to fit new front forks but Kinetics and Terry's Cycles have experience of this (see list of retailers on www.emotivecontrolsystems.co.uk).

Otherwise standard conversion kits for 26" and 28" are shown on the retrofit kit link.

 

[john]

Just remind us what wheel size/motor speed combination you are using. 700c and 190rpm?

Harry,

Mine is 260rpm in 26" wheel.

BTW, I think you missed my post in another thread, but I was wondering if you could give a quick summary of how the TongXin compared with the original motor in your Torq?

Cheers, John

 

[HarryB]

Harry,

Mine is 260rpm in 26" wheel.

BTW, I think you missed my post in another thread, but I was wondering if you could give a quick summary of how the TongXin compared with the original motor in your Torq?

Cheers, John

Your set up is substantially overgeared compared to the standard set-up of 190 rpm in a 26 inch wheel. I suppose top speed is in excess of 20 mph but getting off the line is a bit 'squealy'.

The tongxin works quite reasonably well in comparison to the standard set-up. I actually did it because I wanted more comfort and therefore some sort of suspension for the front fork - very difficult with the wide standard motor. Assisted speed is around 17 mph with a full charge. Hill climbing is maybe a slight improvement over the torq but nothing to write home about. The silence is wonderful but the squealling off the line is not. The other big, big advantage is the lack of drag compared to the original motor. It is easy to pedal up to 20-22mph, trying to pedal a restricted torq much above 16 mph would be all but impossible. Range in my area is about 30+ miles.

I wouldn't recommend the tonxin as there have been too many reports of failures, unless you treat it as a consumable at £50 a pop (+wheel build) which probably probably works out a lot cheaper than replacement batteries!

 

[fishingpaul]

Have you considered the nano kit for your brompton,these have recieved some very good reviews recently.

 

[frank9755]

Lots of good advice here! I do a 12 mile each way commute.
There are three points I'd make
1. Flecc's comment about the relative speeds of hub motors vs Panasonic - if doing it as quickly as possible is a priority then a high powered hub motor would be your best bet. At the moment the leading candidate is probably the Wisper, although it is not that much faster than other options (NB the 905se is actually a big bike - I wouldn't recommend it for anyone with inside leg less than 30")
2. Another point was made about the importance of having pedelec on long journeys. Holding the throttle open for 45+ minutes is no fun - I've tried it! Unfortunately that would rule out Ezee and Powabyke
3. Finally you mentioned reliability. You are always going to have more fiddling around with a kit so if you don't want to do that, don't go there!

From my experience, I'd say that with a Wisper 905se or similar you might get 5-10 minutes off your time to work and more off your journey home, but 45 mins is probably not likely unless you go the high powered kit route.

Good luck!

 

[MaryinScotland]

Holding the throttle open for 45+ minutes is no fun - I've tried it! Unfortunately that would rule out Ezee and Powabyke

Surely that depends on the design of the throttle? My Urban Mover throttle is not especially user-friendly, as it has quite a strong spring, and is only wide enough for a finger-and-thumb grip. But the twist-grip on the Heinzmann that I used to have was no problem. It was a full-hand grip, and perfectly comfortable. And, after all, every motorcyclist uses a hand throttle 100% of the time.

I've seen other people comment on wrist-strain from e-bike throttles. Are they all that bad? Can't the makers borrow technology that works from motorcycles?

Mary

 

[UrbanPuma]

I have been lurking for a long time & am seeking any advice anyone may care to give.

I am considering a bike to help with a circa 12 mile each way commute. I also own a brompton which I love which takes me to the local train station two miles away. I also have a mini cooper which is a second car. I have lived without a car before (thanks to the brompton) & could do so again easily.

If I could find a reliable year round pedelec I could dispense with the car. Any views or advice would be most appreciated.

Hi Pwylie,

Seeing as you love your brompton so much, have you considered the Nano-brompton coversion kit? Have a look at this website Nano :: Home. AtoB magazine have done some reviews on it too. Also if you enter nano-brompton in the search box, you should see some topics on it regarding reliability. According to the comments, it appears the kit is more suited to the brompton and there has not been any reported problems with this setup.

Hope that helps.

Let us know how you get on.

UrbanPuma

 

[frank9755]

Surely that depends on the design of the throttle? My Urban Mover throttle is not especially user-friendly, as it has quite a strong spring, and is only wide enough for a finger-and-thumb grip. But the twist-grip on the Heinzmann that I used to have was no problem. It was a full-hand grip, and perfectly comfortable. And, after all, every motorcyclist uses a hand throttle 100% of the time.

I've seen other people comment on wrist-strain from e-bike throttles. Are they all that bad? Can't the makers borrow technology that works from motorcycles?

Mary

My theory is that it is not so much that e-bike throttles are particularly bad, its that while pedalling on a bike you are either pushing or pulling on the handlebars in a way that you don't do on a motorbike. Also Hall effect throttles are almost like on-off switches, so most e-bikers are holding their throttle fully open all the time, which requires more force than holding it half open.
It's good that your Heinzmann was better - and it conflicts with my theory - but I wouldn't risk a throttle only bike if I was going to do long distances on it, with few stops.