advise me: best electric for NW USA

[acordeon]

Hello everyone! Happy to find this forum!

I live in Wash. state, near Seattle. So moderate clime, but wet. And we recently moved, and now live a the top of a big hill. So looking for a good hill climber - never thought about electric until now, but this hill is too tall to climb on a regular basis without help.

So here's what I'd say my priorities are:
* decent climbing assist (but willing to put out some effort, not looking for a moped)
* waterproof/works well in rain
* bike that feels like a bike (good handling, not tremendously bulky/heavy)
* rides well without power
* can offroad on dirt/gravel trails when required
* reliability
* price

here's what's not so important:
* long range (will be mostly using this for around-town)
* high speed on flat

What would you guys recommend?

There aren't a ton of stores that carry electric where I live. I did try a '09 Giant Twist Freedom at a local shop, and was v. impressed w/ the smooth power assist system. But the bike itself was a bit of a clunker, couldn't really imagine riding it far with the power turned off, even on flat. And they only had 2 biks, and have since sold them. (Seems there's a delay w/ local shops getting the 2010 Giant models?)

I've heard great things about Bionx, and love the idea of being able to transform a bike between electric and human-powered. But their motors are pretty expensive!

Thanks y'all!

 

[lemmy]

I'd have thought one of the pedelec systems from Panasonic or Yamaha would fit your bill, except maybe on price.

The system is integrated into the bike so can't be retro-fitted and is thus more expensive but has the advantage that, powering through the gear train, hills present no problem. In the unlikely event that your hill is too steep, you simply fit a larger rear cog or cassette and lower it.

To ride, you would have no idea that you were not on an ordinary (if heavier) bike except that you seem always to have a 30mph tail wind

The system is properly sorted and designed and thus perfectly waterproof. Dirt/ gravel trails are no problem - it's a normal bike apart from the power assisted crank.

A hub motor might fill the bill for you but for me the only one I've ridden felt rather draggy from the hub motor when not powered.

I'm sure others have better advice than me - Flecc's the man really. Actually, the amount of interest he generates in these machines, I think the trade association ought to put him on a retainer!

 

[flecc]

Hi Acordian, welcome to the forum.

I don't know if you've been in touch with Eric Sundin's dealership, Electric Vehicles North West in Seattle, but they are the main outlet for e-biking in your part of the USA and have been for many years.

As well as Giant, they are agents for the eZee brand, and a bike like their Forza model is very powerful and can climb reasonably well, and fast up average hills. Like most hub motor bikes though, it's not too pleasant to ride without power for any length of time.

As lemmy says though, for the very steepest hills from 1 in 6 upwards, a drive though the gears bike like those with the Panasonic motor system is best, and they are reasonable to pedal without power. There has been a lack of these in the USA for some years, but now the well known German Kalkhoff brand has set up in the USA, their e-bikes all using Panasonic's systems. You can see the details on this website.

I don't know your cycling preferences, but it's best you know that the Panasonic system only gives full assist power at slowish pedalling speeds, so if you like to pedal at fast rotation rates like a sports rider, it might not suit.

Let us know what you think after looking at those options and don't hesitate to ask again for any further information.
.

 

[Miznomer]

I just bought a kit from CleanRepublic in Seattle, (warehouse in North Dakota) i can't vouch for it yet as i have ordered the kit without the wheel - to avoid huge postage charges to ireland, and it will probably be several weeks before i'm set to go - but that wouldn't be an issue for you. I think they have a 30 day money back guarantee, so definitely worth checking out as you're that close.

 

[acordeon]

Thanks, everyone! This is very helpful.

flecc, those Kalkhoff bikes look great, but they're a little too pricey for me. I'm hoping to keep this under $2k for sure, and closer to $1k if at all possible.

Miznomer, those CleanRepublic kits look very interesting - they hadn't crossed my radar before, so thanks for the tip! Can I ask why you chose them?

In most ways the CR kit looks great. Easy to set up and switch out, which I like. But one thing I really liked about the Giant was the torque sensor and variable automatic assist. (The harder you work, the more it helps you.) Looks like the Panasonic pedelecs also have this. It looks like the CR motor has just two settings: off and full-blast? Is that right? If so, seems that could really make it more difficult to ride.

If any of you have ridden both a variable-assist and a simple throttle e-bike, would like to hear you thoughts on the difference.

Thanks!

 

[flecc]

I'm happy with both types. I rode the Panasonic system that the Kalkhoff uses for years, overlapping with the throttle control eZee bike I currently have.

They are very different in character, I always say the Panasonic type is a bicycle with motor assistance, the throttle bikes very low powered motorcycles with pedal assistance.

I'm not quite so happy with e-bikes that are pedal controlled without a throttle and with only power level switching, though that depends on the motor power and number of switching levels. If not too powerful, or there are several switched power levels, they can be fine.
.

 

[Miznomer]

why did i choose them? that's actually not such an easy question, and i'm not sure how much of it is relevant to your situation - but just to provide insight into the various routes by which we make our decisions, here goes

i had been reading this forum for some time, and thought the system that would most suit me would be a tongxin based one because it had the lightest motor with least resistance. My needs aren't great, just some assist up the hills home after a trip to town or a night out. I love my bike as it is and wanted it to feel as much like that as possible.

i made no progress on sourcing a tongxin motor, which is apparently par for the course.
So, then it was a matter of finding the next lightest least resistancest . . .
So, a 24v bafang system seemed to be the way to go. Then the deciding in factors in terms of who to buy from were a)political and b) financial, neither of which really stands up in retrospect.

Firstly, I thought this product was being manufactured in the States and i really wanted to support a company trying to do more than source and sell on. As it happens, most of the componentry is made in China/Japan.
The main alternative for me was a British company, alienocean, who have quite a good record here, and who have a throttle system which i may have preferred. However, by the time that system would have been shipped to me, it would have cost well over €550, that's a million dollars!

Because electrifying my bike is only 10% need and 90% consumer fantasy/toy, and because i've never actually cycled an electric bike, i wasn't quite ready to shell out that kind of money - Especially, when, with a slight fudge, i could take advantage of our "bike to work" scheme and get a whole bike for that money. However, there was another set of reasons for not pursuing that. Much of my decision making is a function of where I live and the need to be more self sufficient/ independent than if i lived in an urban area.

The second reason was opportunism, i happened to notice a clean republic kit (not including wheel) on ebay for $230 and snapped it up. They were at the time selling these at wholesale prices to get ebay feedback. This was the lead acid version. I subsequently bought a lithium battery from their ebay listings, so perhaps by the time i've paid for all the shipping and the wheel building i will be close to that million dollar mark.

I have found dealing with Mike, the manager, very reassuring, and i think from their forum, it seems people feel pretty well treated. To be fair, this seems to be the case with all the established ebike companies.
Oh yes, and i liked how on the forum, he's always looking for input and ways to improve the product and generally save the world!

The kit came last week, but some of the connections were wrong. He immediately had another one sent out, asked me to send some componentry back as soon as i could and they would cover the postage. Which of course is what you would hope for, but isn't always the case.

And just to add to the list of reasons that wouldn't be picked up by any market research, I used to live in Portland, Oregon, and have an affection for that part of the world, so i felt it was the next best thing to buying Irish!

Another point that would be more relevant for you than me, is what system or bike is least attractive to thieves?
a lightweight removable battery is definitely an advantage from my point of view.

This is a very long reply - oh well, have fun shopping!