Alien 20" +Speed D7 What's it like as a "moped"?

[flecc]

I suppose this means that for a Cyclone you must use the gears in a very different manner to what you'd expect for a manual bike. Of course this problem comes because the two power systems are interlinked but have different gearing requirements, so ideally you need two independent gear systems for the human and electric power systems.

Cheers

Steve

That's exactly right Steve, and for best motor efficiency the rider does have to take second place at times.

The sophisticated answer is the one on the Swizzbee, the motor belt drives the left and the rider the right hand
side of the hub, each driving one side of what amounts to a differential. The output from the differential is the
bike hub shell and wheel, so the two input powers are summed according to their contribution to maximise
performance. This allows the same type of transmission drive with the rider able to use their derailleur gears the
best way for themselves without in any way affecting the motor's efficiency.
.

 

[Boby]

Interesting about the relative efficiencies though. I suppose this means that for a Cyclone you must use the gears in a very different manner to what you'd expect for a manual bike. Of course this problem comes because the two power systems are interlinked but have different gearing requirements, so ideally you need two independent gear systems for the human and electric power systems.

In a Cyclone system you may rely just on a motor without rider’s assistance – like in any hub system (I did it).

Cyclone is widely known but other – even more “elegant” Cyclone-like systems are available. eLation and Epac belong to the Cyclone-like group (eLation eBikes, www.epacpower.com.au). They don’t use the standard chain (like Cyclone does), but have separate chainrings and chains.

The rider and the motor may have different gearing requirements – this can be compensated in Epac and in eLation by the change of chainrings size for the rider and the motor.

I am considering chaindrive system for my foldable and eLation seems to be most developed.

The analysis I read said that Cyclone-like systems offer better acceleration and climbing but have lower maximum speed than hub systems. What is your opinion in this area. Did anyone compare chaindrive and hub systems?

 

[torrent99]

In a Cyclone system you may rely just on a motor without rider’s assistance – like in any hub system (I did it).

Looking at the pictures I can't see how this works. All the Cyclone style systems I've seen drive the bike using the normal chain. So the pedals must always turn. So yes you may not be pressing down on the pedals but the motor must still turn your legs!

Cheers

Steve

 

[flecc]

Looking at the pictures I can't see how this works. All the Cyclone style systems I've seen drive the bike using the normal chain. So the pedals must always turn. So yes you may not be pressing down on the pedals but the motor must still turn your legs!

Cheers

Steve

No it doesn't Steve, as I've already explained, and the same is true of the Panasonic system. As said, there's a
freewheel at the heart of the chainwheel, so the pedals can drive the chainwheel, but the motor when driving
freewheels the chainwheel independently of the cranks.

If you have a look at the pic of a Panasonic unit below, you'll see the pedalshaft (3) on which the cranks mount and the completely
independent splined outer shaft (2) on which the chainwheel sits:

So you can relax with the cranks stationary while the chainwheel turns.

And here's the special freewheeling chainwheel which comes with Cyclone kits:

.

 

[torrent99]

No it doesn't Steve, as I've already explained, and the same is true of the Panasonic system. As said, there's a
freewheel at the heart of the chainwheel, so the pedals can drive the chainwheel, but the motor when driving
freewheels the chainwheel independently of the cranks.

If you have a look at the pic below, you'll see the pedalshaft (3) on which the cranks mount and the completely
independent splined outer shaft (2) on which the chainwheel sits:

So you can relax with the cranks stationary while the chainwheel turns.
.

I can see that on the Pansonic system. Just couldn't see the freewheel on the Cyclone system.

Still think that independent power systems and gearing is a better answer, such as you mentioned in a previous thread. The hub gear is IMO the neatest looking answer to this! Anyway we're in the realms of fantasy here....

Still looking for an answer to my original question re: the likely performance of the Alien kit in a 20" wheel.
(I'm also looking at the Tongxin kit, although that's a bit more expensive and requires a bit more work)


Cheers

Steve

 

[Boby]

Stevie – please look at Cyclone home web page (http://cyclone-tw.com/). Movies show bike going without human intervention and riders’ legs do not move. Cyclone kit includes additional freewheel in the spindle.

I tested Dahon Cyclone 360W, 24V, ~22kg today (pictures at the bottom of the page: http://www.bimoto.pl/oferta-specjalna-silnik-do-roweru.htm).

Movies at Cyclone page show one important Cyclone kit virtue – it can offer huge torque. Some of these bikes go upstairs! Can this trick be performed by a motor hub bike?

Cyclone motor (at the 1st or 2nd gear car equivalent) can effectively help climbing and offers good acceleration. On the other hand – Cyclone kit does not accept front gears (only one chainring). So number of gears in a mountain bike is reduced.

Dahon Cyclone was equipped with off-road tires. Maximum motor speed ~30 km/h, with rider’s assistance ~35 km/h. The owner declares the range of ~18km (just electric, maximum speed, no stops).

Cyclone motor is not loud but you can hear it working – rather chain not the motor itself. Pedals are not symmetrical, Cyclone delivers longer spindle, the left pedal is moved ~3cm away in order to give some space for the motor. This change is not onerous – at least for short rides.

One important disadvantage of Cyclone system is the increase of the chain rolling resistance. I had an impression that the effort I made to go fast resulted in ~25 km/h in my bike and only in ~16 km/h in Dahon Cyclone (no electricity). Therefore using the bike without electric assistance may be a problem.

Bigger chain rolling resistance may be my impression only. But it can be measured with ease. If my diagnosis is correct – it will mean that the Cyclone kit is underdeveloped as compared to eLation (eLation eBikes) or Epac (http://www.epacpower.com.au/Epac_Home.html).

Can you recommend any rear geared hub motor for 20” wheel (28 spokes)?