Another Ebike conversion kit death

[AndyBike]

Horrible for the family, and such a young woman whose life has ended due to this craze of converting your bike to Ebike in the cheapest manner possible.

Model was killed in flat fire by converted e-bike battery in flames

Sofia Duarte, 21, perished in a horror blaze which broke out in the hallway of the property on Old Kent Road in Bermondsey, south London - blocking the residents' fire escape route.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Just because you can buy kits and more importantly batteries very cheaply, that is probably the reason not to buy one.

I direct these comments to the #conversion' elite here on this site who constantly look to direct people looking to buy an ebike towards the 'cheaper option'

So if you are recommending people to sites for motors or batteries, you'd better be damned sure what you are championing is fit for purpose.

 

[guerney]

Does this look like a legal 250W hub motor?

 

[Az.]

As usually in cases like that there is very little information about real cause of fire. One can only try to connect dots. Nigerian restaurant, Picture posted above of clearly illegal bike. Was boyfriend working in deliveries business? How battery was charged?
Tragedy of course. I wish we could all learn lesson from it, but for that we need data which is not in this article.

 

[AndyBike]

Does this look like a legal 250W hub motor?

I've said neither legal or illegal. so stop trying to put words in my mouth.

Picture posted above of clearly illegal bike

What are you talking about an illegal bike. Its not illegal to convert your pedal cycle to motor driven.
The problem is too many cheap systems, bought via alibaba or such and without UK regulation. That is where the problem lies. And directing people to the cheapest undoubtedly leads them to these companies.

There is too much nonsense over conversion or mid drive on this site.

 

[Az.]

What are you talking about an illegal bike. Its not illegal to convert your pedal cycle to motor driven.

I am talking about motor size. It is clearly well above allowed by law 250W. I am guessing it is around 1000W.

If one has no problems in breaking rules in one area we can only speculate how many other regulations were broken in this case.

 

[StuartsProjects]

If one has no problems in breaking rules in one area we can only speculate how many other regulations were broken in this case.

Clearly breaking the rules on eBike\Pedelec regulations, in the UK, is not acceptable, and I am sure no-one on this UK forum would encourage that.

However, there seems to be no evidence that its the 'illegal' motors that are catching fire, its the batteries.

And there is the problem, the fires, and resulant fatalities, are not good, but are there any regulations about the construction or providence of the batteries that people are using on their UK eBikes ?

Is the cheapest possible eBike battery purchased from the far East OK and safe ?

Is it acceptable to allow eBike users to use build batteries that have been made from 're-cycled' cells ?

Is it acceptable, that enthusiasts, who may have next to zero (or less than zero) experience of building electical stuff, can get 'advice' on public forums on how to build eBike batteries ?

 

[Az.]

Clearly breaking the rules on eBike\Pedelec regulations, in the UK, is not acceptable, and I am sure no-one on this UK forum would encourage that.

Are you being sarcastic? There are many, many posts on this forum related to illegal conversions. And nothing is being done about it.


Personally I don't think price of battery can be directly connected to safety. Yes, mostly you get what you pay for, but there are many more factors to consider. The article you linked raise more questions than gives answers. If I had a chance I would look more closely into this conversion. I would check his online transactions related to ebikes. Are there any pictures of his bike before it was destroyed? Did he buy any fast chargers recently? The girl was the only casualty. Why? Owner of this bike run away or he just left battery on charge unattended? There are many many more questions. I am afraid articles like that just a poor journalism.

 

[StuartsProjects]

I direct these comments to the #conversion' elite here on this site who constantly look to direct people looking to buy an ebike towards the 'cheaper option'

A diy conversion in itself, is low risk.

Sure you can get stuff wrong, but that can happen in routine (non-electric) cycle maintenace, and thats been acceptable for many decades.

I do agree with the sentiment, but the risk\danger is not in the conversion process itself but in the batteries.

 

[StuartsProjects]

Are you being sarcastic? There are many, many posts on this forum related to illegal conversions. And nothing is being done about it.

A fair point, yes 'nothing is being done about it'

 

[Nealh]

Problem with higher power kits is the poor choice or supply of the battery to be capable of safely delivering the current, it isn't the kit that is dangerous so pointless scaremongering.
The charging process is that which people don't understand and they likely leave the battery charging not on constantly but during the most dangerous time of when asleep.
These guys or girls buy a 1kw kit and a cheap sub £200 battery which to be honest just does not cut the mustard, a minimum imv is £400 from a decent supllier and not a no name ebay of aliexpress one. As often happens we see it on here folks try and buy the cheapest ikit inc battery as possible .

Generally ebikes sare safe and there are very few fires.
This forum from the beginning owes a lot of it knowledge and input from self build and like minded folks to the early oem ebikes well before propriety mid motor bikes evolved and likewise the power hungry deliveroo merchants and there like who don't give a fig about safety.
In the whole the good amongst us only offer most advive for legal 250w motors and genrally good technical info regarding batteries.

 

[AndyBike]

Not sure what deliveroo riders have to do with this but hey ho. But what Im going to suggest is that if new members join, looking for info on kits. We ONLY refer them to Woosh.
No more oh look at alibaba or some fly by night operator who isnt going to be about in two years time, but to an experienced company instead. The basic Woosh price as the measure
So no more cheap battery links.

We have a responsibility. Though I dont, ill push them towards some £6k bosch motored Emtb lol

 

[soundwave]

Not sure what deliveroo riders have to do with this but hey ho. But what Im going to suggest is that if new members join, looking for info on kits. We ONLY refer them to Woosh.
No more oh look at alibaba or some fly by night operator who isnt going to be about in two years time, but to an experienced company instead. The basic Woosh price as the measure
So no more cheap battery links.

We have a responsibility. Though I dont, ill push them towards some £6k bosch motored Emtb lol

id go with the yamaha motors and batts as you can get controllers and parts for the motors, not giant ones tho as the rest are anti repair!

 

[Richtea70]

Looking at the remains of that bike it looks like a ‘Stealth’ type bike or copy of. These type of bikes generally have a ‘custom’ battery pack to fit inside the frame so often these are built to order or homemade with individual cells and costs are cut.
Generally speaking any references to self builds on here point people in the direction of bottle/shark type batteries, which when charged correctly are pretty safe. But just buying a ’brand’ bike/battery doesn’t negate the risk.
A few years ago Samsung had a PR disaster when the batteries in one of their flagship phones started randomly exploding.

 

[soundwave]

Specialized

We take a closer look at one of the most famous electric bike companies, Specialized, and find out why its products are loved by cyclists all over the world.

electricbikeaction.com

31st July 2020 The Best Bike Repair Is No Bike Repair: New Extended Warranty and Firmware Update for all model year 2019/20 Levo FSR & 2020 Kenevo For any rider, the best kind of bike repair is no bike repair – that’s our goal. If one of our bikes has let you down when you were counting on it, we’re not ok with that and we’ll make it right. Period. Our job is to make bikes that give riders the absolute best in performance and reliability. The Specialized Turbo Levo & Turbo Kenevo have delivered on this promise for hundreds of thousands of riders across millions of km/mi around the globe. Innovation at Specialized will never stop. When we find a way to make a bike better, we do it as soon as possible. We make dozens of small improvements to our bikes and mobile apps on a rolling basis - it’s what allows us to deliver riders the very best, often before it is available elsewhere. Some time ago, it came to our attention that we were experiencing a small but unacceptable number of early-life failures in some of our Model Year 2019/20 Levo and 2020 Kenevo motors. Since then, we have worked relentlessly to drive a number of improvements to eliminate any issues. These have included steps to reduce noise, fitting a stronger belt, updates to the freewheel assembly and further optimizations to address strength and overall reliability. All of these hardware-based improvements are featured on motors fitted to Model Year 2021 Levo & Kenevo. To ensure peace of mind for you as a rider, we’re extending the motor warranty on impacted bikes from 2 to 4 years for all owners of Model Year 2019/20 Levo FSR and 2020 Kenevo from the date of purchase. This warranty is transferable should you decide to sell your bike. Recently, we also identified a bug in the 2.1 motor firmware which has contributed to belt failures. In response we’ve just released a new version of motor firmware that improves belt reliability without compromising power or performance. We strongly recommend that you update your motor firmware by arranging a service visit with your local retailer. There is nothing further you need to do in order to activate your extended motor warranty, however we strongly recommend you to register your Turbo bike on Mission Control to access future updates and alerts about your bike (go to ‘DIAGNOSE’  ‘REGISTER). Should you have any questions please do not hesitate to get in touch with your local retailer. Thanks for your continued support and commitment. Mike Sinyard – Founder and CEO

sonstige(s) - Warranty extension & Firmware Update for all 2019/20 Levo/Kenevo with 2.1 motors

Damit das hier auch jeder liest, erstelle ich ein eigenes Thema dazu .... veröffentlicht wurde dies im Emtb Forum. Link hier: Warranty extension & Firmware Update for all 2019/20 Levo/Kenevo with 2.1 motors - EMTB Forums @ Specialized Rider Care To all owners of 2019/20 Turbo Levo & 2020...

www.pedelecforum.de

Some questions (and answers) that our retailers already asked -

Why are you focusing on the Specialized 2.1 motor?
Some time ago it came to our attention that we were experiencing a small but unacceptable number of early-life failures with our 2.1 motor systems. Symptoms typically have been a lack/failure of support/drive to the crank whilst the motor continues to spin at high speed.


Why are you offering a 4-year motor warranty to owners of a 2019/20 Turbo Levo and 2020 Kenevo?
A number of affected riders have expressed to us that they are concerned for the longevity of their purchase, we want to speak directly to this concern by offering peace of mind and demonstrating confidence in our products. We’ve made running improvements to 2.1 motors fitted to the latest MY21 bikes and we want to offer the same peace of mind to all existing owners.


Which bikes are covered and how will the 4-year warranty work?
All 2.1 motors fitted to model year 2019/20 Levo & model year 2020 Kenevo bikes immediately carry a 4-year warranty from the date of purchase. No certificate or new warranty document is required, our authorised retailers will base any motor warranty claim on bike serial number.


Is this warranty transferrable if a rider sells the bike?
Absolutely – the rider must pass on their proof of purchase as this is a pre-requisite of all warranty support.


What have you been doing about this and why has it taken so long to identify?
We have worked relentlessly with our motor partner to drive improvements in our 2.1 motors. Although the symptom is typically a failed belt or freewheel, the root-causes are complex - the reality is that continuous improvements have been made to both hardware and firmware in order to improve overall reliability. And we’ll continue to work together with all technology partners to drive meaningful improvements to performance and reliability. Innovation at Specialized will never stop.


What hardware improvements have been made to the 2.1 motor?
Since 2018 when the 2.1 motor was launched, a number of hardware and firmware updates have been made - including steps to reduce operational noise, fitting a stronger belt, updates to the freewheel (sprag clutch) assembly and numerous optimizations to address strength and overall reliability.


When did these hardware improvements go into production?
There has been continuous improvement since the 2.1 motor was launched in 2018 – we’re focused on any field failures to our products and will continue to drive improvements into the future. The most recent hardware changes affecting reliability have been made to motors fitted to MY21 Levo / Kenevo.


What firmware improvements have been made to the 2.1 motor?
Recently we identified an issue with 2.1 motor firmware that has contributed to reduced belt-life. Based on specific riding styles & terrains, some riders have experienced ultra-short periods where torque was significantly higher than component tolerance levels – accelerating belt failure. To address this we’ve released optimized motor firmware that removes these “spikes” without affecting bike performance.


Has the new firmware reduced motor power or changed the riding experience?
Motor power and bike performance is the same as before, torque spikes were too short to be noticed by the rider. The only change riders will notice is to the walk-assist function which has been reduced in power to comply with recent legislation.


When will you release this firmware?
The new firmware was released to all retailers on 28th July. Riders can arrange with retailers to have this firmware installed at their convenience - please do book in advance and bear with retailers during this season of unprecedented demand for bike service.


Why have some riders experienced multiple failure rates?
Whilst the vast majority of riders have experienced no issues at all, some riders have had more than one replacement motor. Our recent focus areas have been riding style, terrain, climate etc to better understand why field failures have occurred, however we know how frustrating this is for our riders and we’re committed to delivering products that meet their expectations.


Will you replace motors proactively?
No - we won’t replace any motor that is working correctly. The vast majority of riders have had no issues and we believe our latest firmware update will bring meaningful reliability improvements.

have they fixed it ,nope has peter fixed it yep

Brose Motor Upgrade Service - eBike Motor Centre (Performance Line Bearings)

At eBike Motor Centre we noticed the failure rates of the Brose motors has been widely reported and discussed on forums and social media platforms all over the world. We could also see from our own experience, and the sheer number of Brose motors going through our workshop that there were a few...

www.ebikemotorcentre.com

 

[AndyBike]

This is for batteries manufactured between 4 to 6 years ago. How is that relevent here.

 

[Benjahmin]

This is partly down to infrastructure. Would any one keep the petrol (or even diesel) powered vehicle or can of fuel in the hallway/escape route of their flat? Any power dense store is potentially dangerous.
Property prices and density of population is forcing people to live in innappropriate circumstances. The increasing cost of transport (including emmission charges in cities)is driving people to look for cheaper alternatives.
And, as has always been the case in this country, the provision for bike storage/parking is, at best, a total joke.
Garages attached to houses are required, by building regs, to be fire break isolated from the rest of the house. Yet it's OK to keep batteries in the house, my own are so stored 'cos the only alternative is a 'drippy' steel shed.

 

[Az.]

Not sure what deliveroo riders have to do with this but hey ho.

At this moment we don't know if they had anything to do with incident or not. It happens I have never seen a bike like that used by ordinary cyclist while most of professional riders delivering stuff use oversized overpowered kits. If they charge batteries the same way how they ride bikes then every single battery in their possession is a ticking bomb.

But what Im going to suggest is that if new members join, looking for info on kits. We ONLY refer them to Woosh.

Would you like to elaborate why do you think batteries sold by Woosh are safer than batteries sold by other companies?

 

[Woosh]

Would you like to elaborate why do you think batteries sold by Woosh are safer than batteries sold by other companies?

We pay for product liabilities insurance.
That's the main reason why we sell whole kits, parts are supplied only for servicing our kits. If something goes wrong, we wouldn't try to shift the blame on other suppliers.
Our parts come directly from the factories to the containers then to us, not from a wholesaler.
We use top brands like Lishui, SANS, Julet, Panasonic, Samsung.
We only use Grade A cells.

 

[Nealh]

Most illegal higher power ebikes I see a round are the deliveroo , just eat ones ridden by knobs . Very often no lights and drak clothes , they think the silly back pack is there get out of jail free car. Just last week in town I followed one with a 1kw plate in the back wheel no rear light and a rear wheel that was buckled hooning around on a throttle , with their attitude to safety one expects they have a don't care attitude in regards tobattery saftey or charging . Added to his don't care list one can add ridng thru a clear Red lit pedestrian crossing narrowly missing a middle aged women by inches crossing at the time.

Illegal bikes have every thing to do with fast food delievry knobs to which the police seem to have no interest in.

 

[Az.]

We pay for product liabilities insurance.

Insurance is a little help to those who are dead.

Our parts come directly from the factories to the containers then to us, not from a wholesaler.
We use top brands like Lishui, SANS, Julet, Panasonic, Samsung.
We only use Grade A cells.

That is a good thing to hear. On the outside Chinese kits you sell look exactly the same as Chinese kits sold by other companies.
I wish we had good cheap batteries manufactured in UK. Wishful thinking or there is a chance it might happen at some point?

Illegal bikes (...) which the police seem to have no interest in.

This death was easily avoidable if police was doing their job. This bike should have been removed from road and this girl would still be alive. But of course it is easier to blame battery...