Another one for the battery experts

[johnc461165]

Went out yesterday did my usual power when I needed it, did a route I have done previously without any power problems, however 3 miles from home battery cut out. Switched the ignition off then on again 3 lights came on, as soon as I tried to use power it cut out again, so I got home on pedal power "phew". Checked the voltage and it showed 38.1v put the battery on charge 1.5 hours later charger changed to green and battery voltage was 40.2v. Test run today and exactly the same thing happened switched off then on meter showed 38.1v recharged for 1.5 hours again, battery voltage was 40.3v. the bike is an Alien Aurora with the Phylion li Ion 36v 10ah battery, 6 months old with less than 50 charge cycles, I will be contacting Jim at Alien on Monday as there is still 6 months guarantee left, but I am curious as to what you knowledgeable people think the issue may be.

Thanks John

 

[rog_london]

Yes, by all means contact your supplier if the warranty is still in force. It's probably not sensible to try anything else first, unless it's something easily checked like a loose fuse or a poor external connection.

It does sound more like a duff connection than anything else, and it could be anywhere including inside the battery - in other words it might or might not be a battery problem at all. Alien should be your first call for advice on what you should do next.

Rog.

 

[funkylyn]

Well.....have you been upsetting it lately.....talking loudly or abusing it ?
Have you been using another battery at times and ignoring it for days on end....not even
trying to understand its issues ?
Do you ask it nicely when you want anything from it......or has it gone in a huff ?
Maybe its having a 'bad hair' day ?

Or maybe its a dud one, has just given up and needs replacing..........good job its
still under guarantee........still...could be worse, at least its just a battery and easily replaceable

( god, this wine is strong up here in Geordie land LOL )

Lynda

 

[johnc461165]

I thought you would be drinking Newcastle Brown up there.

How many have you had Lynda

 

[funkylyn]

Fourth night out on the trot......I am trying hard to keep up with them (brother and his wife ) !
After all, my dad always said to me....never let it be said your father bred a jibber

Lets just say several bottles of Rose', before during and after a rather nice Italian.........

Lynda

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Went out yesterday did my usual power when I needed it, did a route I have done previously without any power problems, however 3 miles from home battery cut out. Switched the ignition off then on again 3 lights came on, as soon as I tried to use power it cut out again, so I got home on pedal power "phew". Checked the voltage and it showed 38.1v put the battery on charge 1.5 hours later charger changed to green and battery voltage was 40.2v. Test run today and exactly the same thing happened switched off then on meter showed 38.1v recharged for 1.5 hours again, battery voltage was 40.3v. the bike is an Alien Aurora with the Phylion li Ion 36v 10ah battery, 6 months old with less than 50 charge cycles, I will be contacting Jim at Alien on Monday as there is still 6 months guarantee left, but I am curious as to what you knowledgeable people think the issue may be.

Thanks John

Immediately before it cut out, did the lights go down to red? If not, it will be the battery connections. See if you can bend them a bit to make tighter contact. You might have to take the end cap off the battery to get at them from the inside. If the lights go down to red when you give it full power and then it cuts, then your battery has become weak, which could be temporary. Did you give your battery a bit of a rest over winter? If so, give it a few good runs and charge cycles to see if it gets any better.

 

[johnc461165]

Immediately before it cut out, did the lights go down to red? If not, it will be the battery connections. See if you can bend them a bit to make tighter contact. You might have to take the end cap off the battery to get at them from the inside. If the lights go down to red when you give it full power and then it cuts, then your battery has become weak, which could be temporary. Did you give your battery a bit of a rest over winter? If so, give it a few good runs and charge cycles to see if it gets any better.

The 4 power lights on the Aurora are all red but using full power will extinguish 3 of them but it does not cut out then and they re-light as soon as the throttle is closed I used the bike pretty much 5 days a week in the winter but not for long distances and recharged roughly every 3 to 4 days, thanks D8veh.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

If the battery cuts at full throttle, it would be either because there's a bad connection, which breaks down at high current or the BMS is tripping because the voltage has dropped too far due to sag. You need to eliminate the obvious first; However, at the back of my mind I've a got a feeling that the Aurora battery isn't up to the job, which would cause premature failure. I couldn't say for certain without measuring the actual current drawn, but the BPM motor needs a lot of current - more than a what a 10aH Phylion can give unless it's limited by the controller, but then why have a BPM?. I would guess that it's running 20 amps or more and for that I'd want at least 15aH (unless the cells were special high discharge). There was a spate of Auroras with knackered batteries on Ebay about 6 months ago - hence my suspicion, but I haven't seen any since. Then a guy sent me a message saying that the had sold loads of them without ever getting a returned battery, which made me think that they might have just been a coincidence.

Without actually measuring the current/voltage while you use the bike it's not easy to diagnose the fault, so I guess you have to take it up with Alien.

 

[NRG]

I have the same battery on my Alien GSII. My observation is your full charge voltage is too low, it should be 41.9v or thereabouts...I've noticed the charger does an odd on/off/on cycle towards the end of charge which can take over an hour to complete. If I pull the battery off charge as soon as the light goes green I get a similar voltage to you, leave it longer and it creeps up towards 41.9v. Try leaving it on the charger for longer...

 

[johnc461165]

I have the same battery on my Alien GSII. My observation is your full charge voltage is too low, it should be 41.9v or thereabouts...I've noticed the charger does an odd on/off/on cycle towards the end of charge which can take over an hour to complete. If I pull the battery off charge as soon as the light goes green I get a similar voltage to you, leave it longer and it creeps up towards 41.9v. Try leaving it on the charger for longer...

I had the same thoughts as you so yesterday it was on charge for 5 hours but the voltage didn't increase, does 38.1 seem high for the BMS to trip allowing for voltage sag, when using power the motor cuts out instantly the throttle is turned even when I was going down hill yesterday after resetting by switching the ignition off then on to get the power lights back on.

 

[flecc]

That sounds very much like a poor connection then, rather than a cell failure.

 

[Deano]

How on earth are you people getting over 40V from a 36V battery? LOL! I mean!

 

[flecc]

How on earth are you people getting over 40V from a 36V battery? LOL! I mean!

Cells have nominal voltages that are a mean figure. The lithium cells that our bikes mostly use are nominally 3.7 volts each, but fully charged are about 4.1 volts each. Bikes cut out at a low voltage of around 3.2 volts per cell, so the operating range is between 3.2 and 4.1 volts.

It's not just lithium cells either, all cells have an operating range. For example NiMh cells are nominally 1.2 volts each, but they fully charge to between 1.45 and 1.52 volts, but have cut offs set at about 1.05 volts.

 

[johnc461165]

Does anyone know at what voltage does the BMS cuts the power

 

[flecc]

Yes, normally at 31.5 to 32 volts on a nominal 36/37 volt battery.

 

[johnc461165]

Thanks for that flecc I don't know what we would do without you on this forum,

 

[flecc]

Thank you John, but I'm sure you'd manage just fine, there are plenty of very knowledgeable and capable helpers in here.

 

[gerryscott]

I thought I read somewhere here that alien ocean no longer exist?

 

[flecc]

I thought I read somewhere here that alien ocean no longer exist?

Yes, they very recently posted on their website that they were no longer trading.