ARCC Moulton and the Process of Getting There (LONG)

Croxden

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2013
2,097
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North Staffs
My camera costs nothing per month.

I understand how jolly good they can be, but I don't need one, neither do most others.
 
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Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
8,014
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Yes by all means, although I am not getting grumpy. This conversation started with me mentioning some things that I was doing/buying to add co-ords to my photos in the future. I wasn't actually trying to get myself converted, and all attempts have failed. People keep telling me how good smartphones are, and they may be where you live. With the poor mobile reception here it is not a good solution for me, and the reason that I have chosen my multi-device approach. I have tried to highlight this, but it seems to be falling on deaf ears, I have nonetheless enjoyed the attempts of those who obviously think that they know better, despite the fact that there is a good chance that they have never been here!

Provision of functionality at little or no extra cost is a bit wide of the mark. £16 has been stated, per month, for the rest of my life presumably.
No.
Currently you have a SIM card and account costing we are told 12 per month. Where you to purchase for cash a phone it is your property and you could continue to pay whatever tariff you are now on. If for any reason you ceased to pay then you would only lose GSM access. The phone would work similarly to your iPad .. access to .Wi-fi camera GPS and other functions. Such phones are available new at Carphone warehouse and second hand at CEX ( a electronics swop shop) or on eBay etc. There is no rental cost in using what is your own equipment.
Again , not knowing the locale, if you already own your nonsmartphone, is 12 £ per month not steep? For limited functionality. There seem to be SIM only plans from 5£available in the UK from ID and other brands. I believe that these companies piggyback on the same infrastructure as the big players, so your current network should work.
 
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Deleted member 4366

Guest
You're wasting your time with these guys, Dan. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. For whatever reasons, probably sheer bloody-mindedness, some guys just don't want to take advantage of the new things available to them. That's their choice. We try to help them by providing information, but they see the help as an attack on their integrity or intelligence, so they'll defend their position to the death.

We had a guy at work, who would always sit down with us at lunchtime and start the conversation by explaining that he had a problem and needed a solution to it, but no matter what logical solution anybody offered, he would argue to the death why each solution wouldn't work, changing the problem along the way just to make sure. I'm sure we've all met guys like that.
 

Templogin

Pedelecer
May 15, 2014
117
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61
II don't need to buy a phone. I have one already that suits my needs.

My dumb phone does not provide limited functionality, it gives exactly what I require, voice calls and text. There is also a camera should I require one and for some reason didn't want to use the better camera that I usually have with me.

I will look for a SIM only deal that is cheaper, and take it up if that offers the same level of minutes and calls that Virgin offers, or at least enough, otherwise I find the Virgin package more than covers my needs. I use texts, but the entitlement is unlimited. I would use plenty of voice calls. I have no need for the data allowance as I am able to wait until I can get fast and reliable access elsewhere via wifi.
 
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Deleted member 4366

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My camera costs nothing per month.

I understand how jolly good they can be, but I don't need one, neither do most others.
All you need is warmth, food, water, company and a chance to express yourself. Everything else is optional.

FYI, if it helps, smartphone cameras cost nothing per month as well. It's only the calls/internet that you pay for, and you don't have to pay anything if you don't use then. Everything else in it is free.
 

Templogin

Pedelecer
May 15, 2014
117
88
61
All you need is warmth, food, water, company and a chance to express yourself. Everything else is optional.

FYI, if it helps, smartphone cameras cost nothing per month as well. It's only the calls/internet that you pay for, and you don't have to pay anything if you don't use then. Everything else in it is free.
Thank you for not wasting any further time on me. You seem to think you have the answer to everything, but it appears that you don't. You can't seem to get it into your head that we don't have the same circumstances or the same needs. My capacity tale has obviously blown a hole in the Utopia which you think that you can introduce me to with an all-singing smartphone.

One of the answers that you didn't have was between future predicting and forecasts.

Free smartphone cameras? It's only the calls internet you pay for? So presumably I can nip down to the local smartphone shops and ask for a box of smartphones and say that I don't need calls and internet as I just want to use it as a camera? You sir are the dream of sales and marketing drones everywhere.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
49,006
26,728
People keep telling me how good smartphones are, and they may be where you live. With the poor mobile reception here it is not a good solution for me, and the reason that I have chosen my multi-device approach. I have tried to highlight this, but it seems to be falling on deaf ears,
I have the same problem and experience. I have no mobile reception in my home on any network, despite being in a London Borough. I'm retired and home quite a lot, so there's no point in others having a number for me that cannot connect, so no point in my having a smartphone for communications.

Of course when on the odd occasion when driving far from home an emergency phone can be useful, so I have a minimal under £10 PAYG one for that outgoing-only purpose, no-one else having its number. Every couple of months I charge it's battery and make a brief test call to keep the PAYG account valid.

I use cameras suited to the purpose for my wildlife photography, my computers provide for all my online needs and my car has a dedicated GPS.

Yet still others keep telling me I should have a smartphone!
.
 
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Deleted member 4366

Guest
As far as I can see, guys, nobody is telling anybody what to do, we only said what alternatives are available.

Flecc, are you sure there's no reception where you are, not that you need it at home? It's when you're out and about that it's useful. There's a lot of new masts and networks gone up recently. They normally make sure that there's at least one that works in every location. I have been all over UK. The last time I couldn't get a signal was on the Isle of Lewis 8 years ago. I've never had a problem anywhere on the mainland in the last 10 years. Are you sure that it's not your crappy phone that's the problem? Modern ones have much more sophisticated receivers. I'll bet you £20 and buy you the take-away of your choice if I cannot get reception standing outside your house using my phone. You can get the take-away whether you win or lose, but you only get it if you accept the bet.
 

Templogin

Pedelecer
May 15, 2014
117
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61
My son's experience is different in his part of London, Clapham was very well served with mobile coverage, in fact one day he sent me a screenshot and the download speed was something around 80mbps. I bemoaned the fact that the fastest I get on my partner's network was 8mbps, assuming that he was referring to broadband speed, but he was able to confirm that was what he was getting on his mobile, although I don't know if he was at home, he was certainly somewhere in London. The capital is well served in both coverage and competition, and the further that you get from it the lower the service gets, especially in areas of small populations. There are of course many things to make up for this in quality of life, and you soon start to realise that all of the other things that are musts in the life of others are not actually so important. I am sure the day will come when I will need a clinometer, no probably not actually.
 

Templogin

Pedelecer
May 15, 2014
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61
And your alternatives are being rejected, but you are not taking no for an answer.

So which shop do I get this box of free new smartphones from?
 

Templogin

Pedelecer
May 15, 2014
117
88
61
Flecc, don't buy a new one. You can have one from this free box that I will be getting, once I get the details. There may be a short wait!
 
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Deleted member 4366

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Flecc, don't buy a new one. You can have one from this free box that I will be getting, once I get the details. There may be a short wait!
Some people just can't help being wakers, or did I miss something there?
 

Templogin

Pedelecer
May 15, 2014
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You mentioned free smartphone cameras. It's like free lunches, there's no such thing!
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
49,006
26,728
Smartphone cameras have killed off the point and shoot camera and are now decimating the DSLR market. And remember, the smartphone can do a million other things as well!
Though true, why is it that I am so often called upon to rescue smartphone camera photos, using Adobe Photoshop and other softwares?

It's not always the incompetence of the user. An associate in my local environmental issues often produces excellent smartphone photos of certain subjects, but equally fails to in various circumstances where even a dedicated pocket camera can do much better. His top flight smartphone has lost him many a photographic opportunity and that's when I can sometimes perform a rescue of what he did get.

Fortunately he does understand the difference, for he also owns an excellent DSLR and knows how to use it well, but of course cannot always have that with him.

I have four cameras currently, but most of the time use one of the two pocketable ones, both able to meet any of my photographic needs, which a smartphone couldn't. Two of my jackets don't even have a pocket large enough for today's smartphones, but can accept one of my pocketable cameras (Canon SX260). Of course that wouldn't trouble those who live with their smartphone in their hand from dawn to dusk, but I wouldn't want to live like that.
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Templogin

Pedelecer
May 15, 2014
117
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61
Fortunately he does understand the difference, for he also owns an excellent DSLR and knows how to use it well, but of course cannot always have that with him.
.
This associate sounds very wise!
 

Retyred1

Pedelecer
Oct 16, 2016
42
30
NZ
Though true, why is it that I am so often called upon to rescue smartphone camera photos, using Adobe Photoshop and other softwares?

It's not always the incompetence of the user. An associate in my local environmental issues often produces excellent smartphone photos of certain subjects, but equally fails to in various circumstances where even a dedicated pocket camera can do much better. His top flight smartphone has lost him many a photographic opportunity and that's when I can sometimes perform a rescue of what he did get.

Fortunately he does understand the difference, for he also owns an excellent DSLR and knows how to use it well, but of course cannot always have that with him.

I have four cameras currently, but most of the time use one of the two pocketable ones, both able to meet any of my photographic needs, which a smartphone couldn't. Two of my jackets don't even have a pocket large enough for today's smartphones, but can accept one of my pocketable cameras (Canon SX260). Of course that wouldn't trouble those who live with their smartphone in their hand from dawn to dusk, but I wouldn't want to live like that.
.
You are probably correct regarding the competence of the user not being the only factor but it is the main one. I was at a wedding a few months back and noticed the highly regarded photographer was often snapping with his S7. After a couple of beers we questioned him on this and he replied that in some instances he preferred the phone over his usual camera and often included photos taken with it in his proofs to the customer.

This has really got away from the OP original review of his new bike and his trials and tribulations which were very well expressed and made for great informative reading. Thanks Templogin
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
49,006
26,728
You are probably correct regarding the competence of the user not being the only factor but it is the main one. I was at a wedding a few months back and noticed the highly regarded photographer was often snapping with his S7. After a couple of beers we questioned him on this and he replied that in some instances he preferred the phone over his usual camera and often included photos taken with it in his proofs to the customer.
No dispute, for that sort of subject I fully agree, and indeed for the great majority of photos that most people take, a good smartphone is well up to the job.

But in many areas of natural world photography the range of adjustability of even a good compact pocket camera copes with circumstances where a smartphone often fails.
.
 

Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
8,014
11,414
70
Ireland
You're wasting your time with these guys, Dan. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. For whatever reasons, probably sheer bloody-mindedness, some guys just don't want to take advantage of the new things available to them. That's their choice. We try to help them by providing information, but they see the help as an attack on their integrity or intelligence, so they'll defend their position to the death.

We had a guy at work, who would always sit down with us at lunchtime and start the conversation by explaining that he had a problem and needed a solution to it, but no matter what logical solution anybody offered, he would argue to the death why each solution wouldn't work, changing the problem along the way just to make sure. I'm sure we've all met guys like that.

Dave, I agree

Andy,
your comments about the box of smartphones is either wilful obstruction or a jest, in the spirit of Christmas and charity I am assuming the latter.
Of more importance is the decision about your friends bike and the problem of lugging it up steps.
Electric bikes are supposed to improve our lives or at least make them easier. I am a strong believer in the machine being the servent and human being the master. Lugging a 20 to 30 kg machine up and down steps seems to me reversing that role and acting as a major disencentive to using a bike. How long would she consider doing this. 1 year 5, ? 10 ? . I know that I would start resenting it after a fortnight
Yes a bike will suffer more weathering outside, but the model I suggested seems to be either alloy or plastic or stainless steel on exposed surfaces. I expect that other models in the same price bracket have similar components.As I stated previously I also am close to the sea front .... A correction I checked the distance and I am actually 350m from the high tide mark. , So I am familiar with salt water corrosion. A cycle cover should provide weather protection to some degree. The great advantage you have is that crime is low and certainly identifying what would be for a very distinctive bike missing it's battery should be trivial.
If that is unacceptabl or impossible, have you considered inserting a ramp onto the steps?. It need only be as wide as the wheel thickness 5cm and could even be constructed from guttering. Then the walk assist control could be used to power the bike plus groceries up to the premises.
 
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D8ve

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 30, 2013
2,141
1,293
Bristol
Perhaps we can let the issues lie now. There are good smartphones around but you don't have to have one.
Both sides are happy with their choices. Further debate is pointless.

Now have a nice new year everyone.
 
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Templogin

Pedelecer
May 15, 2014
117
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61
My other half has had 14 years of practice of humping an albeit non e-bike up and down the steps so is well used to it, but I keep pointing out to her that she needs to get as light a bike as possible.

The ramp is a good idea, but for the steps being so steep and the chance of other neighbours or those that use the steps as a cut through having an accident. We have discussed the possibility of building a structure at the other side of the house in what is a communal garden, but being a conservation area there are very tight rules.

I don't deserve your charity. I have been abused on a number of occasions on this thread. I have taken it on the chin as when people start abusing you, they know that they have lost the argument. It's a way for butthurt people to fight back. What I have pointed out is some of the foolish statements that have been made, free phones being a classic of many.

Hopefully this thread will return to what it was, a review of my bike, and I know that it was me that diverted from the topic by mentioning gPS datalogger, but can I just say that I don't want a smartphone, even if it was free. Mine does what I need just fine thank you.
 
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