Are good times just around the corner? It seems they may be!

[flecc]

Subsidising ebikes is one thing but while we are discussing it what about compulsory helmet and hi vis clothing?

I did warn this could happen out of the EU. The Netherlands and Denmark made it impossible for the EU to order such a measure, despite wanting to, since there would have been near 100% disobedience in those countries.

Jesse Norman needs his brain testing to even consider it. Australia made helmets compulsory and suffered a collapse in cycling and remain with the lowest rate of cycling in the world.

The Netherlands where almost no adults ever wear a helmet has the highest rate of cycling in the world and the lowest accident rate.

The message is obvious.
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[Gubbins]

I did warn this could happen out of the EU. The Netherlands and Denmark made it impossible for the EU to order such a measure, despite wanting to, since there would have been near 100% disobedience in those countries.

Jesse Norman needs his brain testing to even consider it. Australia made helmets compulsory and suffered a collapse in cycling and remain with the lowest rate of cycling in the world.

The Netherlands where almost no adults ever wear a helmet has the highest rate of cycling in the world and the lowest accident rate.

The message is obvious.
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Yep. Move to the Netherlands or Denmark.

 

[flecc]

Yep. Move to the Netherlands or Denmark.

Or take a cue from the past and deport Jesse Norman to Australia, where all the non-existent cyclists must potentially wear helmets.
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[Gubbins]

Or take a cue from the past and deport Jesse Norman to Australia, where all the non-existent cyclists must potentially wear helmets.
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The little I have read about Australia makes me think they are not so cycle friendly..

 

[flecc]

The little I have read about Australia makes me think they are not so cycle friendly..

These are the helmets the Anzac kids wear under compulsion law. Don't think they'd be too popular here:

 

[Gubbins]

I always wear a helmet, and wear high vis at night. I think I am the sensible one and usually comment when seeing those that dont have a helmet or ride in dark clothing at night, but also feel its not the governments job to educate by compulsion...

 

[mike killay]

As has often been remarked, Britain is more inclined to follow the USA than Europe, and nowhere is that more true than in the love of cars. In this politician context, as in the program "Yes Minister", brave equals suicidal.

And not everyone can cycle so the provision of good public transport is essential, but here we fail again. In large parts of the UK public transport is wholely inadequate, not even beginning to meet essential needs. To correct this means political change and a swing to Left policies, since the privatisation favoured by Tory and Blairite Labour has been instrumental in wrecking our public transport infrastructure.
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I cannot see this ever happening. Maybe in very large conurbations, but not in the vast bulk of the country which is quite rural.
Where I live, the buses run from the outlying villages into the city, so the 'map' of the buses would look like a clock face. to go from where I live( 9 o'clock) to the next village(10 o'clock) involves a 6 mile run into the city centre (centre of clock face) and then another 6 mile run back out, just to reach a place about 2 miles from my home.
Economically speaking, it would not be possible to improve the situation when probably only 2 or 3 people a day wish to go from one village to the next. Multiply that by about 30 for the other villages and suburbs and you get an understanding why public transport just will not work.

 

[anotherkiwi]

I was reading that NZ has a helmet law? Adieu the Christchurch I once knew, less than 3% ride bikes there now

High vis is obligatory on the open road after dark in France, I have no issues with that, it is logical. I don't wear a helmet on the upright but I do on the trike because I haven't flipped it yet and don't know what will happen when I do...

 

[Woosh]

I normally don't wear a helmet but I do when I know part of my route is shared with cars. The danger is usually no so much falling off the bike but other users.

 

[flecc]

I cannot see this ever happening. Maybe in very large conurbations, but not in the vast bulk of the country which is quite rural.
Where I live, the buses run from the outlying villages into the city, so the 'map' of the buses would look like a clock face. to go from where I live( 9 o'clock) to the next village(10 o'clock) involves a 6 mile run into the city centre (centre of clock face) and then another 6 mile run back out, just to reach a place about 2 miles from my home.
Economically speaking, it would not be possible to improve the situation when probably only 2 or 3 people a day wish to go from one village to the next. Multiply that by about 30 for the other villages and suburbs and you get an understanding why public transport just will not work.

I fully agree under present circumstances, but there's other ways when acting as a community.

For example, I had a spell at the village of Widdecombe on the Moor in WW2, when there was virtually no car use. Once a week on a Wednesday morning we had two single deck buses take all of us the 13 miles down to the town of Newton Abbot for shopping and other essentials. We had two hours to do that before the buses took us slowly up the long climb back home. That worked because everyone knew the rules and I presume the buses did the same for other Devon villages on the other days.

But certainly a frequent daily service is out of the question for such villages, a service has to be co-ordinated and only on certain days.
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[wheeler]

I am happy to do my own risk assessment and will wear hi-vis when conditions require it. I do run with lights on all the time.
As far as wearing a plastic hat is concerned I have yet to come across a hazard with a level of risk that would be controlled by wearing a plastic hat.
If I regularly rode at speeds over 25mph then wearing a helmet may be considered but it would have to be one which was effective at those speeds ie m/cycle helmet.
The whole idea of dressing in special clothing to use a bike seems crazy, the Dutch have the right idea, they dress for the destination not the journey.

wheeler

 

[anotherkiwi]

All my accidents are well below 25 km/h! Not wearing a helmet at 60 km/h keeps me alert...

 

[flecc]

All my accidents are well below 25 km/h! Not wearing a helmet at 60 km/h keeps me alert...

There's a lot of truth in that. When I started motorcycling consumer crash helmets hadn't been invented, it was either bare headed or a leather flying helmet (historic, airliner pilots don't seem to wear them).

So for some 23 years I rode motorbikes bare headed, but knowing how vulnerable I was I made darned sure I didn't come off. It's been shown many times that having protection does make people more confident and less liable to prioritise safety.
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[Danidl]

There's a lot of truth in that. When I started motorcycling consumer crash helmets hadn't been invented, it was either bare headed or a leather flying helmet (historic, airliner pilots don't seem to wear them).

So for some 23 years I rode motorbikes bare headed, but knowing how vulnerable I was I made darned sure I didn't come off. It's been shown many times that having protection does make people more confident and less liable to prioritise safety.
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A colleague of mine at my college being a civil engineer and therefore by definition mad, campaigned for years that instead of an airbag, cars should have a sharp spike embedded in the steering wheel. With such a constant reminder of a possible fate , he was convinced that drivers would always drive with due care and attention..and there would be fewer road deaths was he wrong?

 

[flecc]

A colleague of mine at my college being a civil engineer and therefore by definition mad, campaigned for years that instead of an airbag, cars should have a sharp spike embedded in the steering wheel. With such a constant reminder of a possible fate , he was convinced that drivers would always drive with due care and attention..and there would be fewer road deaths was he wrong?

I've heard that suggestion before. I've no idea whether deliberately induced danger would work in the same way, but it's been shown many times that introduced protection induces less care taken.

When we introduced the compulsory seat belt law the government's Roads Research laboratory were closely monitoring the before and after situation in all respects, mainly looking for evidence of less injury and deaths and possibly less accidents. The results disappointed, but the thing they noticed most was an overall definite increase in car driving speeds, not large but very consistent. Apparently wearing a seat belt made higher speeds feel safer, so little wonder the safety gains disappointed.
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[Damian.Doherty]

Subsidising ebikes is one thing but while we are discussing it what about compulsory helmet and hi vis clothing?
Whilst I do have an issue with the being forced to do things scenario it would be almost worth it to the licra lads all in high vis.
http://road.cc/content/news/231057-e-bikes-could-be-subsidised-and-helmets-compulsory-under-new-government-plans

I wear a helmet every time I get on my bike, I place doing this in the same category as wearing a seatbelt in a car. I'm glad they're bringing in legislation but my mind boggles at the amount of people I see commuting on bikes every day not wearing a helmet!

Not to mention wearing all dark clothes with no lights, but one thing at a time!

 

[flecc]

I'm glad they're bringing in legislation

Don't count chickens, it hasn't happened yet and I'm betting it won't happen in my lifetime.
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[Ruadh495]

Helmeted cyclists are 14% (IIRC) more likely to suffer injury in an accident, but that won't stop some people wearing them, or politicians trying to make them compulsory (got to be seen to be doing something).

Personally I tried one, but found I got a lot more close passes (quite noticeable), so went back to a flat 'at, it feels safer. I've heard of risk compensation, but I don't want other people doing it for me, thanks.

 

[ttxela]

I've heard that suggestion before. I've no idea whether deliberately induced danger would work in the same way, but it's been shown many times that introduced protection induces less care taken.

When we introduced the compulsory seat belt law the government's Roads Research laboratory were closely monitoring the before and after situation in all respects, mainly looking for evidence of less injury and deaths and possibly less accidents. The results disappointed, but the thing they noticed most was an overall definite increase in car driving speeds, not large but very consistent. Apparently wearing a seat belt made higher speeds feel safer, so little wonder the safety gains disappointed.
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That sounds very similar to the arguments against head-guards in boxing, the guard slows you down and makes you more likely to get hit, also a reliance on the guard reduces the necessity of maintaining a tight guard so you are more likely to get hit etc.

 

[wheeler]

I'm glad they're bringing in legislation but my mind boggles at the amount of people I see commuting on bikes every day not wearing a helmet!

I'd be careful what you wish for. Mandating helmet use will allow the government to pass any responsibility it has for cycling safety onto cyclists and thus avoid spending on the cycling infrastructure required to ensure the kind of safe cycling enjoyed in the Netherlands where practically no one wears a plastic hat when cycling.

Please don't allow your mind to boggle at those of us who have assessed the risk of head injury and come to the conclusion that a plastic hat designed to mitigate a 12mph impact to the crown of the head is of little use in most incidents.

wheeler