Are lightweight,short range e-bikes the answer

[Kudoscycles]

I have often looked at lightweight (less than 15 KGs),short range,sports bike derived e-bikes. I looked at the Freego Raptor at the NEC cycle show and couldn't decide whether it is a compromise too far to achieve the lightweight,
The guys on the Freego stand told me they sold 300 units in 6 weeks so I guess a pedelecs forum member is likely to have bought one....the Raptor is 5,5 Ah battery and weighs 14 kg,incl the battery.
Anybody any experience of using one?
Do members have any thoughts on the type?
KudosDave
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[trex]

I don't thinnk lightweight is that important for most people. Range is.

 

[RobF]

I don't thinnk lightweight is that important for most people. Range is.

Light weight is nice, range is crucial.

 

[oigoi]

I think there are plenty of people for whom an ebike with 10 miles range, that did not cost much more than a decent standard bicycle (say about £300) would be given real consideration by many bicycle buyers, especially if it did not weigh much more, or have much more drag than a standard bicycle. Then people could always buy an extra or bigger battery at a later date if they did want more range. I think the key would be to be hitting a lower price point about £300 where you are offering standard bicycle buyers the choice of something more for the same money as they might be spending on a bicycle anyway

 

[KirstinS]

Agreed - lightweight is key if we are talking folders that need to go on public transport as part of a commute

Lightweight is also important if you are new to pedelecs - it's a hangover from people's normal cycling experience - at least that how it appears to me and was my own experience

You soon realise it ain't such a priority - a strong , big ass battery is !

 

[KirstinS]

I think there are plenty of people for whom an ebike with 10 miles range, that did not cost much more than a decent standard bicycle (say about £300) would be given real consideration by many bicycle buyers, especially if it did not weigh much more, or have much more drag than a standard bicycle. Then people could always buy an extra or bigger battery at a later date if they did want more range. I think the key would be to be hitting a lower price point about £300 where you are offering standard bicycle buyers the choice of something more for the same money as they might be spending on a bicycle anyway

I agree - but isn't that asking for the moon onna stick ?!

300 quid doesn't get you much bike - not new anyway. I don't see how you can get good enough components to cope with pedelec requirements and reliable electric kit at anything like that price point

Happy to be proved wrong mind !

 

[Jimod]

It would all depend on what you wanted an ebike for. If I had a 5ah battery on my Kudos Tourer I'd get about 15 miles range. I seldom ever do less than that when out so it wouldn't suit me. If, however, I was using the Tourer for commuting, I've got an 11 mile round trip, so the 5 ah battery would be OK.

Horses for courses I guess and for me, range is king, followed by comfort and accessories. Light weight is way down the list.

 

[trex]

I think there are plenty of people for whom an ebike with 10 miles range, that did not cost much more than a decent standard bicycle (say about £300) would be given real consideration by many bicycle buyers, especially if it did not weigh much more, or have much more drag than a standard bicycle. Then people could always buy an extra or bigger battery at a later date if they did want more range. I think the key would be to be hitting a lower price point about £300 where you are offering standard bicycle buyers the choice of something more for the same money as they might be spending on a bicycle anyway

even if a £300 bike is possible (the woosh Angel sold for £299 including delivery and it's a hefty piece), vendors aren't interested in making them - too little money in it to make it worth their while.
The real battle for vendors is the £999 bike and £1599 bike.

 

[oigoi]

I guess I'm thinking of a product that would bring ebiking to the masses. I agree it wouldn't be something with a big profit margin in it but with large market appeal it could still make someone a lot of money, Maybe something really simple, like a front wheel that had a large hub containing the motor and a small battery , with a throttle on the handlebars.

Maybe I'm being unrealistic, I just see a potential market that there isnt a product for at present

 

[trex]

there is a potential for a £300 kit - not the whole bike.

 

[oigoi]

What do you reckon, KudosDave? Could you do a henry ford and make a model T that brings ebiking to the masses?

 

[flecc]

Cytronex make such very light e-bikes as you suggest Dave, 4.5 Ah battery with a light Tongxin motor intended for just hill assistance. A reasonable cyclist can get 20 miles range, a strong sport cyclist nearly 40 miles using the battery minimally.
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[RobF]

What do you reckon, KudosDave? Could you do a henry ford and make a model T that brings ebiking to the masses?

Mmm, I can see Dave in a Henry Ford benevolent dictator type role - loved and loathed in equal measure.

 

[Kudoscycles]

What do you reckon, KudosDave? Could you do a henry ford and make a model T that brings ebiking to the masses?

The market in the UK is not big enough to do a Henry Ford,but the e-bike for the masses already exists....they sell in every supermarket in China but are they the specification we want...
35 kilos,direct drive motor,steel frame,throttle,one gear,20 Ah lead acid battery,crude brakes but cost about 250 US dollars or less. They sell about 20 million a year.
The problem here is that we have laws that so protect the consumer that nobody would want to put a warranty on such a bike....in China you take it home and if it packs up you fix it yourself or take it to your local e-bike dealer who fixes it for 20 dollars. Also Chinese people are averagely light (most girls weigh about 45-50 kilos) and Chinese cities are built on flood plains,ie they are flat,they don't expect these bikes to go up steep hills.
In Europe we demand so much more from these bikes and the volume is tiny that inevitably they cannot be cheap for the masses.
Ironically Ford are setting up,or maybe have set up,the largest production line in the world to produce Ford Fiestas for the world but in particular to satisfy the Chinese home market,increasingly wealthy middle class. The traffic problems in major chinese cities is becoming close to grid lock.
KudosDave

 

[Geebee]

What you describe is what I started out with and had no trouble with 20 to 30 km range with a good reserve.
Build the bikes for a good price and offer a second battery with a case (seat bag?) and lead that clips on for extended range for those that want the option.

 

[EddiePJ]

Then people could always buy an extra or bigger battery at a later date if they did want more range.

But then you will be back up to weight again.


If the brief is a ten mile battery range, then taking a good quality lightweight road bike to begin with which already has ballistic speed on all but the nastiest of hills, I can't see the need for a second battery. Ten miles is a heck of a lot of hill climbing.
I wouldn't pay the money for one, but the appeal of riding one is certainly there.

 

[trex]

lightweight bikes only appeal to youngish and strong pedallers to whom the bike's weight can make a difference.
Not a big number.
£300 e-bike: totally possible but commercially suicidal for anyone to try.
It's a sad fact that people who buy extremely low cost bikes are predominantly poor and use the bike to beat bus fares, they won't bring their bike indoors. That's why the Chinese put a big SLA battery and a 10 kg DD motor on the bike, to stop people pedalling and to withstand the weather. Then I was thinking that a Chinese version of the Copenhagen wheel may solve this catch-22.

 

[jerrysimon]

With reason, if you don't have to carry the bike I guess weight is not an issue.

For a full sized electric bike I would always go for comfort over weight i.e. full suspension.

I guess the only other point is if the electrics fail and you have to ride home unassisted.

Jerry

 

[JohnCade]

My bike is around 25 kilos without the stuff I carry around with me like a lock and tools. Something 5 kilos less would be much sportier and nicer to throw around. Above the 20 kilo mark they're getting a bit lardy IMO. It is difficult I know with full road equipment, and front suspension needed with the awful state of the minor roads now.

 

[Geebee]

Weight is still and issue even with an e-bike, I had a scooter style e-bike way back and removing the fairings etc. took about 10 kg off it, it could then climb hills unassisted that it previously could not, accelerated faster, had a longer range etc. so just because a bike has e-assist it doesnt pay to ignore weight.

Also from my unassisted days it was very obvious that losing a few kgs off a bike made a lot more difference than the caculators show, I assume because they dont show the increased endurance etc. from the reduced load accelerating as well as climbing.
Plus a lighter bike is more agile.