battery life was worrying..50 cycles stopped the worry

[keithhazel]

at a time when ive been pondering about buying a Quando folder and frazzled Flecc with questions which to be frank was dumb, whispers of new bikes with great potential are just that, whispers, if you want quality in anything then you have to look for reputable products with many good things said about them, the £845 for a quando was more then i can afford which was why i dithered so much really,you can buy for half the price, which i have in the synergie/eddison, no complaint about any of it, "it does what it says on the tin" in fact if i lived in a windless, gradientless place i wouldnt look at anything as its brill, but it doesnt claim on the "tin" to be 36 volt and a small "punchy" bike not put off by wind and hills as does the reports about the Quando...and just when i was about to go for broke, rather close to comfort too, and get a Quando i read all these reports about poor battery life, many failures and people having to buy again....this was quite a worry again, anyways i am in hospital friday and dying to suddenly get one i phoned up 50 cycles today, 4 minutes to 5 it was,explainging i realised how late it was but was there any chance of ordering one then and there and having it delivered tomorrow,after much umming and arrring and pointing out ordering is normally required by noon which i was quite ok with, and where i lived and him not knowing exactly the vans route for tomorrow we came to the decision it was a NO....i had no problems with that,so while that was the end of the conversation another one started,somehow i got on to the point of battery life being reportedly quite poor from reports i had read on the forum, WITHOUT actually quoteing him as was a telephone conversation and not paying exact attention to detail, he agreed there was some problem occasionally but warrenty covered things like that, to which i replied "but isnt it only 6 months for the battery ?"..."erm...oooh....well we have been known to replace even after the warrenty has expired" he said...."oh thats reassuring" i said.....so i left it at that, my immediate rush over as after friday i cannot leave the house for minimum of 7 days so would not need a bike in that period, but after then i will and with hearing some assurance about battery failure help im a lot happier, after all if the claim is 300-500 charges, thats off top of head as heard so many figures ive lost track of correct number,i reckon to charge about 3-5 times a week so 2 years is what i was hoping to get from it...so i will search for a week for a second hand one and if no luck fork out for a new one......in which case i would like assistance on knowing which are the best lights money can buy, i dont just want one as dont mind spending extra to save my life, if i look like a xmas tree im not bothered, there are so many to be had i want first hand experience advice please....have saddle bag off e-bay last week, have to buy a bike as need somewhere to put saddle bag..
i want good advice about top ways to keep battery in excellant order too, battery will never be left out in the cold, always indoors.....best simple speedo..dont want it to talk to me or give weather reports, just how fast im going and how many miles ive covered.....got bike locks i used on synergie, 3 of them and use them all too ..terrible when you have to use 3 to feel safer.....any and all advice is welcome, after all ive got 2 weeks after friday where all ive got to do is stay in, so can read all you can put..thanks in anticipation...

 

[bersh]

What I Have Learned From Six Month Of Quando Ii

I think the strategy of buying a used Quando II and then buying a new battery (Lithium is what I have) might be good. I learned, only after purchasing and running into problems, that recharging the battery after every useage is the way to go. My warranty for the battery is one year (I bought my Quando from NYCE in New York City and had it shipped to San Francisco, where I live). But this bike is not good on hills, as FLECC discovered, and thus was the basis for his adding seven gears. If I had to do it all over again, I would only buy the Quando II in FLEC's configuration. Note that at the time I bought this bike, it was, to my knowledge, the only folding, electric bicycle around. Had there been a model that had gears, then I would have bought that with 20/20 hindsight. Good luck in your search!

 

[keithhazel]

how very easy for a novice like me to get confused, from all what i have read i believe it to put accross how well the quando performed on hills,and also im not understanding why the only supplier of quando's on their website show a picture of a red quando 2 and then underneath it says."only available in silver" ..and under that is a picture of a quando 1 folded, when i have been told they no longer sell the quando 1 ,as a prospective buyer i dont want to see the bike i want in a colour i cant have, and a folded quando that i cant buy anymore.and a you tube video clip of a quando 1 on the quando page... if i wasnt confused befor im sure getting there. ...and as for second hand quando...got as much chance of seeing john prescott riding a bike down my street, but thats good as shows they are good quality that people want to keep..

 

[flecc]

This is confusing Keith. The Quando is good on hills from the motor point of view, the best hub motor of all for hill climbing in our UK legal market. What Bersh means is that the rider gear of only one speed is not good on the extreme hills like the ones he has in San Francisco, and they are STEEP (You've seen the tramcars on them in the movies!). That one speed is a compromise, you can't change down so pedalling at low speeds is very slow.

On the hills that you ride Keith, it will fly up them and amaze you in comparison with what you've been riding, so you don't have any worries there. In fact, it won't even need you to pedal on a lot of them. O a 1 in 8 (12%), it not only pulls someone like me or David Henshaw of A to B magazine up without pedalling, it can do a standing start up there without pedalling.
.

 

[keithhazel]

right i understand Flecc, it confused me a little but now you mention the trams in san fransisco i know exactly what he meant,
thanks keith

 

[ITSPETEINIT]

Flexible Warranty

Quote Keithhazel:
he (50Cycles) agreed there was some problem occasionally but warrenty covered things like that, to which i replied "but isnt it only 6 months for the battery ?"..."erm...oooh....well we have been known to replace even after the warrenty has expired" he said...."

Hello Keithhazel:
Really? They (50Cycles) revealed themselves to me as NOT willing to replace after 7 and one half months when the battery had travelled only 80 miles plus 40 miles more testing it to give feedback of the problems.
I had to ask the opinion of Mr. Ching of eZee cycles and that brought all sorts of aggro in subsequent negotiations on another matter.
"Caveat emptor" and "Get it in writing" exactly how long the warranty is and if you are unhappy with the warranty period, walk on by.
Peter

 

[keithhazel]

suprised i was..

well i did say "dont quote me on it" but it was the phrase he used,"we have been known to replace/sort out probem even after warrenty"...this was in quick retaliation to me saying "but the warrenty is only 6 months isnt it".. i will in no way mention names of who i spoke to,although there was a similarity if only by name to the pilot of thunderbirds "1" ....and like everyone else i really do think if we are paying £250 for a simple thing like a battery a years warrenty would be in order, after all if i buy a toaster from tesco for £10 i think i have a years warrenty ..

 

[flecc]

Apparently the battery cut-off has been altered now, and Mr Ching has said he will change batteries which fall well short of satisfactory, so there has been some change in the position now.

Judging from your previous description of your journey, I don't think your trip is trying for a Quando Keith, so that will help the battery anyway. Most of the time you'll be spinning along at full speed with low discharge.
.

 

[keithhazel]

Quando-bikes are go !!

try as i might, or my wallet might ...to avoid forking out whats going to be a grand by time lights, panniers ect have been bought,im pretty sure in a weak moment im going to pick up the phone and make that order,at which point after im going to be asking the important questions..
1) is it the same as my phylion battery where im supposed to charge it after every trip no matter how small.
2) is the battery Flecc was talking about when he says he does several small trips to drop it to halfway or les befor he re-charges a different type to li-lion
3) are you not supposed to run it right to the bitter end so no charge left, if thats the case then what point do you stop befor re chargeing, then its not a 15 mile battery more of a ? battery
4) when they say..a life of 300 charges (just a number) does that refer to 300 full charges, so does chargeing it after a short trip count as half a charge ?
5) i charge mine up indoors, but read of one that melted and talk of not chargeing indoors came, is that right ?
6) i also NEVER leave mine out at night but indoors in the warm, well i wouldnt leave a pet outdoors either ...doesnt letting it get cold/frozen outside kill it a bit ?
7) reading all the different ways to test for battery power loss, isnt there something for a simpleton like me ?...what if when i get it do a full run and periodically do the same run over same course and see if i get as far, will that do ?...with all your amp talk ect i felt like i was learning to fly a plane or something
8) other then that im ready for it...oh..have you given yours a boys name or a girls name ?? and dare you tell me..

 

[Ian]

1) Yes, charge as often as possible.
2) Don't know, Flecc might though.
3) Not if you can help it, although once in a while shouldn't hurt.
4) The number of cycles normally means full cycles, a charge after a short trip would be a part cycle. Two parts might be slightly more than one whole though.
5) The lithium manganese composition of the Ezee batteries is inherently safe, the fire risk is normaly assosciated with lithium cobalt types.
6) It's probably better indoors but outdoors should be OK as long as your not in Siberia.
7) Seeing how far it'll go is the simplest test, and the only one that really counts.
8) I don't do names for bikes, or at least I didn't until somone gave me an idea.

 

[ITSPETEINIT]

Answers

try as i might, or my wallet might ...to avoid forking out whats going to be a grand by time lights, panniers ect have been bought,im pretty sure in a weak moment im going to pick up the phone and make that order,at which point after im going to be asking the important questions..
1) is it the same as my phylion battery where im supposed to charge it after every trip no matter how small.
2) is the battery Flecc was talking about when he says he does several small trips to drop it to halfway or les befor he re-charges a different type to li-lion
3) are you not supposed to run it right to the bitter end so no charge left, if thats the case then what point do you stop befor re chargeing, then its not a 15 mile battery more of a ? battery
4) when they say..a life of 300 charges (just a number) does that refer to 300 full charges, so does chargeing it after a short trip count as half a charge ?
5) i charge mine up indoors, but read of one that melted and talk of not chargeing indoors came, is that right ?
6) i also NEVER leave mine out at night but indoors in the warm, well i wouldnt leave a pet outdoors either ...doesnt letting it get cold/frozen outside kill it a bit ?
7) reading all the different ways to test for battery power loss, isnt there something for a simpleton like me ?...what if when i get it do a full run and periodically do the same run over same course and see if i get as far, will that do ?...with all your amp talk ect i felt like i was learning to fly a plane or something
8) other then that im ready for it...oh..have you given yours a boys name or a girls name ?? and dare you tell me..

Answers:
1) YES
2) NO! Not a different type of Li-ion.
3) NO! Don't run it to the bitter end except to condition it (2 or 3 times) when it is new. Then charge it as often as possible and do not use it beyond the point where the red LED (on the handlebars) is on when the cycle is stationery or running on the flat. You will only be able to judge how far you can go before setting out if you have an idea how far the battery will go on that route - so you don't get left miles from base.
4)A full charge is from pretty flat to the green light on the charger (beware the false green). Switch off the charger wait about 30 seconds/1 minute and switch it on again if you get the green light immediately or nearly immediately, it's fully charged.
Anything less than that is a part charge: when you know how many miles it should go on a full charge (your test run) the number of miles since the last charge is the fraction of a full charge. Me? I just keep my computer ODO up to date and divide by 20 (my normal range) and that is the number of charge cycles the battery has had.
5)The reason for charging up out of doors is that if there is an incident where the battery/charger catches fire (very rare) it does not burn your house down.
6)It's good to leave the battery indoors overnight in the winter because very cold batteries do not give up their power so readily. But for long(er) life, if the battery is to remain out of use for some time it helps to keep it cool (cold) but although some say "keep it in the fridge" it should not be frozen.
7) I posted a question today about 'simpletons' testing batteries: it seems the only way is to take a run to establish it's normal range in typical territory and log that as your benchmark. When the battery begins to decline you will get fewer and fewer miles. It will also help to advise you that all is not well with the battery if there is a sudden drop in range (but see 4 above re. the green light on the charger).
8) Don't give your bike a name: it gives 50 Cycles illusions of grandeur. If you must, a Torq should have a boy's name and a Sprint a girl's name, if you get my drift. If you've got a Quando, I'm not sure whether they are neuter or hermaphrodite. Take care you don't get over excited when you ride it if you give your bike a girl's name and don't let it see the latest edition of AtoB.
Peter

 

[keithhazel]

to both who have answered up to now i thank you for your simple answers that even i can take in and remember,the one point that i am not 100% on is the "conditioning"...from new and do i go through that procedure at any other time, i did read a while back about some battery where the person said every month or so run it till it was flat and then re charge...but untill i get multiple..more then 1 saying the same i done believe much. .."law of simpletonism" ""the majority cant be wrong""...

 

[flecc]

Only NiMh need refreshing monthly or so Keith.

With Li-ion, do about three runs down to fully or nearly discharged on the bike, followed by a full charge each time. That brings the capacity up to spec, and that never needs doing again. From then on, just charge at every opportunity.
.

 

[keithhazel]

thanks fot that info Flecc..i gues the only thing left is to make that call tomorrow..... bit like having my hair cut, i dont want to but i HAVE to ...then i will have to sit and polish it till i can leave the house a week on friday maybe, that will be tough... ...
on a good note...having read of the demise of the schwinn bikes in that contest i think that has laid to rest my doubts as was scared i would buy a quando and the schwinn folder would pop out overnight..somehow i dont think its coming !!

 

[flecc]

After the folders you've known Keith, you'll have a huge smile on your face the first time you take off on the Quando. Just a couple of flicks on the pedals at take off, and then let the motor just whisk you away while you sit back and enjoy the scenery.

You'll do the same on many of those hills too, but if you pedal to help then, you'll fly up them.
.

 

[keithhazel]

yes i think you are right Flecc, and thank you and others for experience knowledge which is more important then out of a book, and i will have a smile on my face as i wizz along, for a while i might have a puzzled one as well while im trying to understand the poetry scott said, having briefed all at the beginning about wanting things in simpleton terms i now have to work out shakespearean dialogue,.... quote me amps and voltage, more chance i will work that out..lol...this forum is like when i go to work in sheffield, its fun with friendly people willing to help..i can certainly understand why people feel good about being a biker or car enthusiast member, you are all like minded and are a "nicer" group of people..ie.no riff raff

 

[flecc]

Keith, please see your PMs for some comforting news to guarantee your Quando and Li-ion battery purchase will be a success.
.

 

[Cyclezee]

Keith, please see your PMs for some comforting news to guarantee your Quando and Li-ion battery purchase will be a success.
.

I'm reading between the lines here, but can we take it that Ezee Li Ion battery problems have been resolved? I also note that 50cycles are offering "1 year of free parts and repairs" and I assume that as they are not saying otherwise this includes batteries as well?

John

 

[flecc]

I don't think so John, as far as I know, the 50cycles warranty is for the bike and not consumables. It's too early to say that the battery problems have been resolved, though there's been improvement, but of course only time will tell with that.
.

 

[Cyclezee]

This warranty issue needs clarification so that customers know exactly what is and what isn't covered by warranty.
If the battery as Flecc says is a consumable item, one of the most expensive and potentially unreliable components of the bike, then the length and terms of warranty should be clearly stated on 50cycles website and in their literature so that customers know exactly where they stand.

John