Battery replacement

[Bullet]

This subject seems to be hard to get sorted at a reasonable price and I think the aftersales departments of most manufacturers have not really considered an affordable replacement scheme. Any thoughts on this issue?

 

[Bullet]

As an afterthought would it be possible to compile a list of battery replacement costs?
I suppose that at the moment cost is high and ebikes are an expensive hobby

 

[Nealh]

Nearly most batteries can be re- celled for a fraction of the cost sometimes, more so when it comes to closed system batteries.
Woosh are saying a lot of batteries are tamper proof but what this means I don't exactly know yet as have not come across it.

 

[sjpt]

If you buy generic kit you should be able to get replacement batteries at a (relatively) reasonable cost. They are still expensive, batteries are. If you buy a propriety system (eg Bosch, but others too) then you are much more likely to be stuck with the suppliers high replacement cost. You should be able to get them recelled, but there are sometimes complications to that; for example, I understand that if a Bosch battery has been allowed to drain so low the BMS no longer works it is (almost?) impossible to recover/recell it.

 

[AndyBike]

I reckon in a couple of years the cost will about half. Not helpful for right now, but as these become more available, like everything the price will come down.
Probably find the cost today for a 500 or 625 will get you 1000w or so.

 

[Nealh]

Bosch prices won't come down.

 

[stevenatleven]

Bosch prices won't come down.

You don't know that Nealh, its just your opinion.
With petrol & diesel cars being withdrawn from sale within 10 years, electric vehicles will have to come down significantly in cost and e bikes plus their batteries may benefit from that. Let's hope so

 

[vfr400]

You don't know that Nealh, its just your opinion.
With petrol & diesel car being withdrawn from sale within 10 years, electric vehicles will have to come down significantly in cost and e bikes plus their batteries may benefit from that. Let's hope so

It is an opinion, but it's fairly well justified. What happens is the specification of the battery keeps increasing, which drives the market and the price upwards. You can make the argument that over the years the price per Wh has decreased, but battery prices always go upwards. It's just that you get more for your money.

A breakthrough in the technology could theoretically change that, but, despite all the press releases, I think I'm right in saying that we've never seen a breakthrough that reduced the price of batteries in the history of electric bikes.

 

[Nealh]

Bosch as a model and like the other closed systems, I would say I'm likely not the only one who will think that these branded ebike costs won't come down.
Generic ones possibly but with the demand for lithium cells I can't see it.

 

[Nealh]

With current 18650 cells the most efficient mah rating and current appears to be 2500 - 2900/3000 mah, only one cell above above this is a really good cell and that is LG's MJ1 at 3400 - 3500mah, the Samsung 35e & Sanyo GA are not as good esp on life cycles. The newer 21700 cells are at the 5000mah level and the Samsung 50e looks a very good cell for ebike use, whether we see any higher mah cells that are truly better we will have to see.

The production for all these billions of cells will be using up considerable resources to produce and at a not very economical way. The world demand and activists role in changing the way fossil fuels are used for power sources will compare little in the future for next generations who will have to deal with mounting lithium recycling and reclamation. The other side may not be greener ethically.

 

[vfr400]

With current 18650 cells the most efficient mah rating and current appears to be 2500 - 2900/3000 mah, only one cell above above this is a really good cell and that is LG's MJ1 at 3400 - 3500mah, the Samsung 35e & Sanyo GA are not as good esp on life cycles. The newer 21700 cells are at the 5000mah level and the Samsung 50e looks a very good cell for ebike use, whether we see any higher mah cells that are truly better we will have to see.

The production for all these billions of cells will be using up considerable resources to produce and at a not very economical way. The world demand and activists role in changing the way fossil fuels are used for power sources will compare little in the future for next generations who will have to deal with mounting lithium recycling and reclamation. The other side may not be greener ethically.

No need to panic. Sodium cells are just around the corner, and when they expire you can open them up and sprinkle the insides on your dinner, which will not only make your food taste better, but it'll also tone up your body.

Science | AAAS

www.sciencemag.org

 

[Nealh]

Hasn't your Doc told you how bad sodium is for you vfr , maybe the chippy will be selling sodium batteries with ones order .

 

[stevenatleven]

Just tonight on Ch4 a Tory minister quoted car battery costs have come down from $77,000 9 years ago to $11,000 today.
If thats true who can tell how e bike batteries will go pricewise if the huge e bike uptake in the UK continues.
The internet tells me there are 200 million e bikes in China with 30 million added annually, wonder how much they pay for their e bike batteries ??

 

[richtea99]

Just tonight on Ch4 a Tory minister quoted car battery costs have come down from $77,000 9 years ago to $11,000 today.
If thats true who can tell how e bike batteries will go pricewise if the huge e bike uptake in the UK continues.

Agreed. I guess that ebike batteries will first get smaller and smaller (with no price change - that's the current stage we're at), until we hit some magical 'adequate' size and power, and at that flex point the price decreases instead, since it becomes a commodity item. There's a limit to how small and how powerful you want an ebike to be.
I'd say we're pretty close - 1-2 years to commodity/price reduction time. My battery is probably lighter than my motor already. The unknown spanner that will get chucked in is Nealh's excellent ecological/resource point.

 

[Michael Price]

The only way Bosch battery prices will come down is if they start having to quote replacement costs along with the prices of a new ebike
Then it will start making new ebikes look expensive compared with generic ebike using cheaper batteries

Mind you - they would probably claim they have a new range which is not compatible with the old ones - then keep the price of the old ones high

But I keep hoping - I reckon my current battery should last a few years - so we shall see then!

 

[Nealh]

Prices will be held artificially high as the so called 'niche' makers bring in more integrated and frame batteries, when ever has seen commodities get cheaper esp bikes. Motoring certainly became more affordable however I just don't see the swap over to mass biking on a regular basis in the UK, yes sales may be on the up but the vast majority of these bikes are bought on the back of initiatives and a feel good factor for the planet on the back of covid. These buys are impulse buys and most for the winter will be relegated to the garage, shed or where ever and then come nice weather time be wheeled ut for use again. Some will be totally put off when they find they haven't cared for the battery properly and the bike won't work or battery won't charge.

 

[Nealh]

We have seen a trend for some bikes where weight is a feature and one sees it a bit on here with buyers wanting advice on lightweight bikes, part of any weight reduction will be for lighter drive units (but this means likely more failures due to rider weight use), but also the the battery is an issue cells don't become lighter so capacity has to suffer and come down to loose weight via less cells. We are seeing a few more 8ah/288wh batteries on bikes.

 

[mike killay]

At the moment it is difficult to see beyond Brexit.
But there is little doubt in my mind that Bosch add unnecessary electronics in order to maintain a high price for their systems, and these electronics skirt around EU law regarding restraint of trade.
After Brexit, it is possible that Chinese bikes will get cheaper if EU anti dumping tariffs are removed.
Quite why anybody buys a Bosch motored bike is beyond me.
They are expensive to buy and expensive to maintain. They are no better than many Chinese made bikes.

 

[Nealh]

Problem is your average cyclist or newbie venturing in to ebikes don't read the nitty gritty on forums like this one or the German one.

 

[georgehenry]

For leisure riding a good range is important.

A lot of commuting to work might be around 10 miles. My route to work on the road is a 20 mile return trip and I can charge my battery at work.

I bought one of these batteries of Ebay in March 2018 complete with charger and although I am sure it is not of the highest quality it works very well for my commute and hopefully will continue to do so for a while yet and having an extra charger is useful.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/36V15Ah-Lithium-ion-Battery-E-bike-Silver-Fish-with-Cellphone-Charging-USB/222214730187

At the price I paid and the amount of riding I do even if it expires at three years old, and it looks as if it will keep going longer than that it has proven to be a cost effective and simple purchase.

However even the much more expensive to replace Yamaha battery on my 2015 Haibike hard tail is showing no signs of dying at the moment after 12,722 miles, and will be six year old in March 2021.

On crank drive bikes the motors seem to be more likely to fail than the battery.