BEBA - Private membership - Yay or Nay?!

[Ultra Motor]

Hi All,

David and I have been discussing whether BEBA should be open to a private individual membership?

We would like to know what your thoughts are? What would you expect to receive in return for a membership and what would you anticipate to be a fair yearly charge?

Looking forward to hearing from you all

Mark & David!

 

[Stumpi]

Personally I think a seperate "club/group" run by its members(maybe off the back of this forum) but with close links and backing from BEBA is the way to go.

 

[Lloyd]

Please accept my ignorance here, but I am not sure what BEBA do? I was under the understanding that it is a trade representation? But now I am confused.

 

[Bandit]

While it might be admirably balanced, I'm not sure it would suit our traditional Anglo-Saxon adversarial ethos. It's currently a trade association and therefore (as pointed out by the great Adam Smith) it must necessarily involve an element of conspiracy against the public interest. To balance it, an electric bike consumer's association is surely the British way.

 

[Ultra Motor]

BEBA is a trade association to represent both manufacturer and retail outlets. However, we have had enquiries from individuals requesting membership in a similar way to the LEVA setup.

I personally, don't see a problem with a 'consumer' focussed section of the association. An opportunity for consumers to feed back to the manufacturers what they want to see in the future, changes etc. For them to benefit from an advice service or special offers on show entry or cycle insurance?

 

[Lloyd]

Why don't you approach the Bicycle Association of Great Britain for representation? They have a huge voice in the bicycle trade and would be able to help no end I would imagine. I don't see how you will have the time to run the trade representation side of things let alone a consumer representation, as aren't all the founders of bEBa in the trade actively already? Please don't take that as a knock, I am just trying to get my head around the whole BEBA thing and trying to see how it would fit in and benefit everybody. There is after all no point in having an association if it doesnt benefit the majority.

IN terms of things to offer the consumer, my BC membership gets me free liability insurance, specific legal representation (for cycling related rta or similar), discount in some shops, a race licence and entry to a national ranking system. OK the last two will hardly be applicable but liability insurance and legal advice would be a big advantage. TBH though you can get this already as part of CTC or BC. The other advantages are personal training and development, coaching, organised rides and events. These all cost extra but BC members get discount usually. This kind of setup is also a huuuuuge resource drain, BC and CTC employing large numbers of staff just to run themselves, hence the joining fees.

 

[Ultra Motor]

Hi Lloyd, thanks for the response, your POF is very interesting and welcomed. We are only exploring the opportunity due to interest from consumers, we don't want to replicate where it isn't required.

We have tried working with the Bicycle Association, however, they didn't seem to understand that the needs of e-bike manufacturers may differ from standard bicycle manufacturers and we needed to maintain a level of independence for the best of the industry. In saying that our door is wide open to speak with them further if they choose to.

BEBA will be a drain on the team, but for those who run it (David and I putting a lot of time in at the moment) its not a tool to grow sales for us. We want to develop the sector for everyone's benefit and its a personal interest- so we put in personal hours to support it as required and the rest of the team will do.

So maybe, we start by organising some ride out's for e-riders and a facility for them to feedback what they want to see in the future?

Thanks
Mark

 

[flecc]

I'm wholly supportive of the BEBA concept but think it's best to stay primarily as a trade association to avoid conflicts of interests and possibly even internal disputes.

A national club for e-bikers may be an idea, but even that could cause problems. For example, an event like Presteigne would logically be run by the national club, but as it stands it's now to be a BEBA event.
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[Ultra Motor]

I understand the different POF.

My original vision for BEBA was to assist the development of a sector which would be well supported, well represented but also to create a PR buzz. Show people that two wheels can be fun, it is a viable form of alternative transport and really to get more people out of cars. I think a few bike rides would be a really good way of achieving this.

I don't know what the general consensus is?

 

[eTim]

I'm wholly supportive of the BEBA concept but think it's best to stay primarily as a trade association to avoid conflicts of interests and possibly even internal disputes.

A national club for e-bikers may be an idea, but even that could cause problems. For example, an event like Presteigne would logically be run by the national club, but as it stands it's now to be a BEBA event.
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I've said before that I think that Presteigne is more of a trade event open to the public much the same as events at the NEC or Olympia or Wembley etc.

If a club or association or fellowship or something similar was formed for consumers, then Presteigne would be on the members calender as one of the events to attend, a bit like the Ching challenge would also be and anything else relevant to ebiking.

I see two options for consumers - a formal route and an informal route, personal membership of BEBA would be down to individual choice.

The formation of a group for informal, but organised, events such as ride out's and gatherings can easily be arranged through a forum, or even a section devoted within a forum such as Pedelecs. This just needs enough people to put some effort into gathering together and not much more, over time it would build it's own momentum, but it would be a bit of fun and not take itself too seriously. There would be no membership fees or membership as such and all liability would be down to individuals, no risk assessments, no insurance (other than personal), no elf and safety required.

The formal formation of a club or such like brings a whole host of insurance, liability and health and safety issues that IMO would make the whole thing a PITA.

It would be good as a group of like minded people if members of the trade and BEBA joined in on gatherings and visa versa, we are all in this together.

 

[eTim]

I understand the different POF.

My original vision for BEBA was to assist the development of a sector which would be well supported, well represented but also to create a PR buzz. Show people that two wheels can be fun, it is a viable form of alternative transport and really to get more people out of cars. I think a few bike rides would be a really good way of achieving this.

I don't know what the general consensus is?

Totally agree, I think the informal route would be the way to go to get some of us 'out there'.

From what I have gathered being on this forum for a few months is that we are a diverse bunch in terms of age range, backgrounds and ebikes that we ride. We can showcase the fact that we do not all draw a pension and ride 'electric granny shoppers' (no offence intended to those drawing a pension and riding granny shoppers intended ), which is a widely held belief. There is an ebike for everyone at a budget to suit everyone, what better way then for industry and consumers to come together in organised ride-outs to show this.

 

[lemmy]

An opportunity for consumers to feed back to the manufacturers what they want to see in the future, changes etc.

They can do that easily enough now, surely? Manufacturers and dealers have email/ postal/ phone numbers or addresses so customers can make their views known easily enough.

The problem with most businesses is not that you can't contact them but that they don't respond.

At the moment e-bike business is small enough to be responsive but if they become big and unresponsive I dont think belonging to a section of their trade association would make them more reactive.

 

[simonbarnett]

They can do that easily enough now, surely? Manufacturers and dealers have email/ postal/ phone numbers or addresses so customers can make their views known easily enough.

The problem with most businesses is not that you can't contact them but that they don't respond.

At the moment e-bike business is small enough to be responsive but if they become big and unresponsive I dont think belonging to a section of their trade association would make them more reactive.

I'm not sure what a consumer branch of BEBA adds to the party. This forum, on which dealers are welcome to contribute, seems to already serve that purpose without significant regulation or cost. How does dealers letting us join their association differ? Plus it associates those who join with BEBA's lobbying when it's clear some disagree with their stance, e.g. on the throttle debate.

 

[flecc]

I think that Presteigne is more of a trade event open to the public much the same as events at the NEC or Olympia or Wembley etc.

I don't see it that way at all, it started as an e-bike rally with races and enrtertainment and was never intended to be a trade selling event.

In general events and meetings aren't run by trade associations, they are run by clubs and national associations, the latter often representing users. Neither the motor trade nor the SMMT run racing, rallying or specific model meetings for instance, and there are numerous other examples.

I have the impression that the trade are trying to take over Presteigne and the BEBA association with it is another step in that direction. Whether that is a good thing is a moot point, I'm none too sure.
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[eTim]

I don't see it that way at all, it started as an e-bike rally with races and enrtertainment and was never intended to be a trade selling event.

In general events and meetings aren't run by trade associations, they are run by clubs and national associations, the latter often representing users. Neither the motor trade nor the SMMT run racing, rallying or specific model meetings for instance, and there are numerous other examples.

I have the impression that the trade are trying to take over Presteigne and the BEBA association with it is another step in that direction. Whether that is a good thing is a moot point, I'm none too sure.
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I didn't know the history of the event, so I stand corrected, however I could be forgiven for thinking that it is a trade event when the 'official' (correct me if I'm wrong) website proudly splashes the sponsors at the top of the page before you reach any information on the event itself. If the sponsors are not the organisers then I would expect a much smaller reference to them either in a side bar or at the bottom of the page or on a separate page devoted to sponsors, not on the front page and in fact I would expect this even if they are the event organisers! So who does organise this event? See here:

Tour de Presteigne - Electric Bike Rally UK

 

[flecc]

Yes, exactly what I meant about the trade seeming to take over.

Pete Mustill, broadsheep@aol.com, 01544 267163 was founder and has been the organiser of the Presteigne event.

The 2007 event was announced in here first by pedelecs member Alan Terrill.

The 2008 event was announced in here first by David Miall of Wisper.

The 2009 event was announced in here first by Andy Grayland of Onbike who was on the organising committee.

so you can see the trend!
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[alex_h]

Here are my views

Firstly. If the bike user has a problem with the retailer or manufacturer then the private individual could ask BEBA for help to resolve the issue. Otherwise I don't think private individual should have anything else to do with the association

Secondly I just noticed that BEBA is the association represented by the Brands directors Dammit you guys. Tell me since when the Associations are represented by people who have run their own businesses and clearly have their own interests? To me Association should have reps that are impartial. Since that was nobody to create such an Association which I think is a good think and its good chaps you did set this up as it might improve a customer service a bit, now I really think you should find other who take over your duties and you should simply step out.

Its like the Ministry of Health having the shares in the Glaxo Smith Kline, total absurd, sorry to be harsh but that is MHO

Alex

 

[flecc]

now I really think you should find other who take over your duties and you should simply step out.

Alex

Give it a chance Alex. Your sentiments are to be applauded, but this is still a very small industry in Britain and BEBA has only just been set up and is yet to gain a large proportion of the industry as members. It's a bit early to start unwelcome expenditure on additional staff solely to run the show. There's a membership drive running at the moment so when the association grows some more, this sort of expense may be justified and more appropriate.
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[alex_h]

listen Flecc, I do understand your views and respect them but anywhere in the world any association shouldn't be represented by people who have their own interest and please don't tell me its good for the ASSOCIATION

Maybe Willie Walsh should lead the BA's Trade Unions now. I'm sure the strike would be already called off.

Instead I would nominate you as a chairman and maybe Russell as the secretary providing you would be interested. You and few other are at least impartial and are in the industry for years

how about that???

 

[flecc]

I wasn't trying to tell you it was good for the association Alex, I agreed with you in the first sentence. I just said give them a chance, this isn't yet the time for setting up an expensive outfit to run, that can follow once they are off the ground.

At the moment it's like a new starter business where the owner does the sales, packing and dispatch and also makes the tea and sweeps the floor. Not desirable but necessary.
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