Bought a cheap ebike kit from Amazon Warehouse

Bonzo Banana

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Sep 29, 2019
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Just looking for anyone who recognises it. It came with a generic manual and nothing really that gives any spec for the hub itself. It has a fairly standard KT36 controller with a 11A rating and seems nicely made. Just wondered if anyone knew/recognised the factory for the hub motor or full spec of the motor. Sold as a 500W kit. I'm guessing old stock at Amazon it was the last one sold through Amazon Warehouse, it didn't look like a return, came sealed and looking brand new. I'll admit I don't even know if its geared or direct drive as nothing on the advert clearly stated it but the price was very good so took the gamble. I'm assuming its a powerful geared hub motor but I'm not sure.

45966

45965

45964
 

egroover

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Aug 12, 2016
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weird spoke lacing, all of the spokes are threaded the same way from the hub, don't they normally alternate in the opposite side ? not seen that before, not sure if that will affect the strength or the dishing of the wheel..
 

Nealh

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Aug 7, 2014
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Spoke lacing is fine, it uses a 1x lacing evident in pic #2 as it is only a 20" rim.
Controller is far from basic it is a std KT 22a square wave model identified by the zws in the type identifier, it might be sensored or might not.
Hub is 4:4:1 reduction geared hub so pretty std as is a Bafang clone, it may even be an unmarked Bafang or mxus.
 
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Bonzo Banana

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Sep 29, 2019
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Spoke lacing is fine, it uses a 1x lacing evident in pic #2 as it is only a 20" rim.
Controller is far from basic it is a std KT 22a square wave model identified by the zws in the type identifier, it might be sensored or might not.
Hub is 4:4:1 reduction geared hub so pretty std as is a Bafang clone, it may even be an unmarked Bafang or mxus.
That makes sense. I remember seeing a video of the Bafang factory admittedly a few years old but the hub motors were bought in for final assembly and testing by Bafang. I'll see if I can find it. I watched a few videos at the time and it seemed like Bafang were buying in the hubs and doing the final assembly and testing themselves where as their mid-drive motors were all their own design. There are a few Bafang videos about on youtube and that was the impression I got from watching them. Obviously final assembly and better checks can still make a better product. When I tried to trace my motor the same company seems to have been selling Mxus so probably more likely unless there is one big huge manufacturer of hub motors that provide a lot of major parts for smaller hub motor factories. On one of the videos it was stated they provide major parts for some of the European brands i.e. for assembly in Europe. I know Bosch battery packs are pretty much assembled in Europe from mainly Chinese components but got the impression they were talking about actual mid-drive motor internal parts.

Hopefully anyway if I do wear out the presumably nylon planetary gears in a few years I will be able to replace them. I've not seen a 500W geared hub motor before. I'm sure there are many perhaps even some more powerful but I'm used to seeing them around 200-400W with most 250-350W. It's pretty huge compared to many hub motors fitted to 20" wheels hence why I was sort of wondering if it was a direct drive hub. Small for a direct drive but huge for a geared hub. Anyway thanks for the info.

This is the video and its about 5 minutes in.

 

Nealh

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Bafang sell 500w geared hubs as do AKM , AKM also sell the Q128H in 800 form.
 

Bonzo Banana

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2019
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Bafang sell 500w geared hubs as do AKM , AKM also sell the Q128H in 800 form.
I've seen them about but 250W and 350W seem far more common but then I'm in the UK and 250W is the legal requirement and 350W is perhaps acceptable to many and looks pretty much like the 250W versions and I guess mechanically often is the same with only the controller being different.
 

Bonzo Banana

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Sep 29, 2019
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I didn't mention it before but had a bit of buyers remorse with regard the battery pack I bought. I pretty much went looking for a battery pack as soon as the kit arrived and ended up buying the 48V 15Ah version of this battery which at the time was about £80 so with VAT about £97 and about £4-5 cashback back at topcashback.

It's gone up by 50% since I purchased it only about 3-4 weeks ago. So the buyer's remorse has actually turned into relief as prices have skyrocketed.


Also this charger which was £7.43 plus VAT and has now gone up considerably.


Anyway factoring in everything the battery and charger has cost me £100 there abouts although the topcashback cashback hasn't been paid yet and its possible it may not be but usually is.

On the positive side the battery is taking plenty of charge so I don't think its full of sawdust like some aliexpress battery packs as they normally charge very rapidly.

So far very pleased just need to get in gear and start fitting the whole kit to the bike.

All replies are welcome positive or negative, perhaps remind me of a few precautions to take.

How to mount the battery would be useful info. I'm fitting a rear rack to the folding bike and a little unsure how to do the rest of it. I was thinking of a hard case within a soft rear rack bag.


This is the bag I'm thinking of using.

46332


46331
 

guerney

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Sep 7, 2021
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Secured by velcro, I use two cheapo waterproof hiviz rucksack covers over the rear rack mounted battery on my folder, because I discovered that just one isn't waterproof after several hours in the rain.
 
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Bonzo Banana

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Sep 29, 2019
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Ok it looks to have taken about 7-8 hours to charge to green and that is a 2A charger with a 15A battery so I think that is hopeful for capacity with I guess a minimum charge in the battery when shipped. I'm going to let it continue charging for about 3 hours to balance the cells before disconnecting. The battery is stone cold and the charger lukewarm. One thing I noticed on the charger was at the point the LED changed from red to green it flickered a bit between red and green but is now a solid green LED. I'm used to LEDs flickering when there is a fault but seems fine. It just seemed to have a state for perhaps 5 minutes where both the red and green LEDs were flickering at the same time.

Obviously the real test is when fitted to an ebike but looks hopeful so far.

The battery pack is a bit lighter than my original battery pack. That was 48V 12.5Ah using Samsung 2500mA 18650 cells and this is 48V 15Ah using 21700 5000mA cells and is uncased and I would guess its about 2/3rds to 80% of the weight. So both lighter and more capacity.
 

harrys

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Dec 1, 2016
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I bought that battery last Fall from the "Official Liitokala Store", not to be confused with the "Official Liittokala Factory Store" or the "Official Liittokala Value Store"I am sure that there are more, and I don't even know if my seller was the original.

Liitokala had such a good reputation that the name was stolen, and I believe that now the copiers have dragged down the name.

But I did get a 13S-3P 21700 shrinkwrapped battery for $119USD shipped (90 GBP), and it has been a good battery to date.

I've laced up four motors into 20" rims, The first two I did were single cross, alternating elbows, It didn't work. If the spokes are to touch at the cross with a 100mm diameter hub on a 20" rim, they have to be all elbows facing out, so I took them apart and redid them.
 
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Bonzo Banana

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Sep 29, 2019
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I bought that battery last Fall from the "Official Liitokala Store", not to be confused with the "Official Liittokala Factory Store" or the "Official Liittokala Value Store"I am sure that there are more, and I don't even know if my seller was the original.

Liitokala had such a good reputation that the name was stolen, and I believe that now the copiers have dragged down the name.

But I did get a 13S-3P 21700 shrinkwrapped battery for $119USD shipped (90 GBP), and it has been a good battery to date.

I've laced up four motors into 20" rims, The first two I did were single cross, alternating elbows, It didn't work. If the spokes are to touch at the cross with a 100mm diameter hub on a 20" rim, they have to be all elbows facing out, so I took them apart and redid them.
I've been impressed with the battery as far as I can see so far. I'm fairly sure its the genuine capacity as stated which is 720Wh despite the lowish price. The previous ebike batteries I bought were over 2 years ago and I bought two hailong based batteries of 624Wh capacity that were £150 each with charger and that was a very good price back then which I only got because there was a ebay voucher code operating and the seller gave a bit discount for buying 2 batteries. As we moved into covid pricing those batteries shot up over £200 each maybe around £220 was realistic. So admittedly to get this higher capacity battery which admittedly is uncased for around £100 with a charger with covid pricing etc is pretty amazing. Hopefully I remain impressed when I sort out the ebike.

I bought the ebike kit because it was a big reduction on Amazon warehouse it was a impulse purchase really. I hope its good as supplied and doesn't need re-lacing. I've never laced a full wheel only replaced individual spokes. It is something I'm hoping to do though but I will experiment first with old wheels and less critical wheels.
 

matthewslack

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Nov 26, 2021
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Ok it looks to have taken about 7-8 hours to charge to green and that is a 2A charger with a 15A battery so I think that is hopeful for capacity with I guess a minimum charge in the battery when shipped. I'm going to let it continue charging for about 3 hours to balance the cells before disconnecting. The battery is stone cold and the charger lukewarm. One thing I noticed on the charger was at the point the LED changed from red to green it flickered a bit between red and green but is now a solid green LED. I'm used to LEDs flickering when there is a fault but seems fine. It just seemed to have a state for perhaps 5 minutes where both the red and green LEDs were flickering at the same time.

Obviously the real test is when fitted to an ebike but looks hopeful so far.

The battery pack is a bit lighter than my original battery pack. That was 48V 12.5Ah using Samsung 2500mA 18650 cells and this is 48V 15Ah using 21700 5000mA cells and is uncased and I would guess its about 2/3rds to 80% of the weight. So both lighter and more capacity.
Even at the higher price, if it works well enough and has the claimed capacity, that still looks like a good deal. Was that from China, and how long did it take?
 

Bonzo Banana

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2019
740
433
Even at the higher price, if it works well enough and has the claimed capacity, that still looks like a good deal. Was that from China, and how long did it take?
Yes from China and took 3 weeks approx however there was no tracking information and when I looked at the parcel it said something about coming from a UK address on a trading estate somewhere. Maybe bulk shipped from China with other orders and then individually sent from within the UK.

I'm a bit suspicious of the Aliexpress anniversary promotion seems like a lot of prices have gone up to me. Maybe they will permanently go up or maybe they will return lower later.

I've had a quick look on aliexpress and can't find anything to beat the pricing of my battery except likely fake capacity batteries. Some of those are so cheap though that you wonder if they are only half their stated capacity if they are still worth getting. However I didn't want any hassle so went for a highly reviewed product where people were stating capacity was genuine.
 

harrys

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 1, 2016
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AH ratings for batteries are based on cells, which were tested from 4.2V/cell down to 2.5V/cell, However, for safety. a 48V battery is shut off at 3.0-3.2V/cell by the bike controller and a little lower by the battery BMS, maybe 2.9-3.0V/cell. And voltage sag makes it happen even earlier

I put a load tester on the Liitokala 48V15AH and got 11.7AH at a 3 amp load. That's inline with the 40-42V cutoff. I'm happy with the result,
 
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