Brexit, for once some facts.

[Woosh]

uncle Tom Cobbley

do you mean OT?

 

[Fingers]

I assume that OT compares the nationalists in the conservative party to the German national socialists but there is a big difference. The conservative nationalists are a small minority and not in power, the nazis were united and won the vote. There is no way the conservative nationalists are going to rule this country.

I don't really think there isn't an analogy to be made tbh.

He's always banging on about Nazis. He compared Farage to Hitler the other day. That sort of talks dilutes from calling out the real right wing fascists imo.

 

[Danidl]

do you mean OT?

.. I had a wry smile as I was writing that sentence.. It's an old expression.

 

[OxygenJames]

Let's see how.. They may very well be decent sensible people,but this is something outside your, their and my experience.,so sensible they may be but prudent is not the adjective I would add. .
If the UK had been bounced into a war footing, against their will, and without planning then the response of stuff upper lip, gritting teeth and making the best of a rum deal and just getting on with it would be a justified reaction. But that is not the situation .
A " no deal" means a" no deal ", not a lesser deal but a no deal. There are no contingencies set up, no reciprocal landing right, no customs posts set up, no mechanisms for checking goods, no insurance provisions . That is not a project fear scenario, that is the current situation. Have you seen the diggers in place carving out the lorry parks? Have you seen the tenders for provision of new IT services. The only sign of a no deal is that prospective civil servants may be asked to work overtime!. And this for what is reckoned as the most serious event in 70 years, and starting in 3 months time!.
And yet again and for the very very slow learners out there . The British people who voted produced virtually a balance between leave and remain... 600,000 people out of 34,000,000 ticked one box differently than the other. They did not necessarily want a no plan , no deal situation.

My Mum tells me stories from the war. You don't fool me.

 

[Fingers]

My Mum tells me stories from the war. You don't fool me.

Wasn't Lord Haw Haw Irish as well?

 

[OxygenJames]

no deal will cause instant devaluation of the Pound to anticipate the cost of disruption, followed by about 3% inflation for 2-3 years. Basically, if you don't have much assets like the poorer 90% of Brits, you'll be robbed about 10% within 2-3 years. At the same time, car factories will have to cut production because they can't sell the same number of cars. Possibly up to 400,000 people may have to change jobs, become fruit pickers, waiters, cooks, cleaners etc.
Any deal with the EU will bring the NI open border back to the negotiating table. This is because the EU does not want UK's access to their Single Market by the backdoor.
No deal brexit won't last long before the tories will suffer the most stinging defeat. It can be matters of months.
Any following administration will have to commit to the EU's customs union.

A classic example of Project fear. How can you be so certain of all this? We were told this kind of stuff before the vote - emergency budgets and god knows what other calamities that were supposed to happen. Fear. It's all fear. You don't actually know.

 

[Danidl]

Wasn't Lord Haw Haw Irish as well?

Yes he was, lived in Salthill,Galway as a child.. whether he should have been hung as a traitor when Ireland was not an ally of England, was a moot point. .. According to some people he was an obnoxious little git ( offensive term), but that in itself is not a capital offense.

 

[OxygenJames]

Wasn't Lord Haw Haw Irish as well?

People go on about how bad it would be with no deal. They should seriously sit down with my Mum and let her tell you some of her stories from the war. Where people were being actually killed. Families split apart. Men coming back torn to pieces. The bombing. The terror of it all.

I hear people talk about 'no-deal' with the same tone in their words. What nonsense it is.

We got through the war and we would get through whatever a 'no-deal' brought. It is what we voted for. To leave the EU. So we're not as 'prepared' logistically as we should be. Whatever. Welcome to democracy. Stop whining and get on with it.

 

[Danidl]

A classic example of Project fear. How can you be so certain of all this? We were told this kind of stuff before the vote - emergency budgets and god knows what other calamities that were supposed to happen. Fear. It's all fear. You don't actually know.

You can legitimately say that, but equally you must concede that sterling has dropped from 0.72 up to 0.90 , that is the a 26% deviation... . That is not speculation but fact!.

 

[OxygenJames]

It does seem agreement for ref2 is growing but the advocates of that really should tell His Toniness to shut up and go away. Whatever he tells country to do, I, m fairly sure the country simply has further evidence not to do it. I really think powers in tory party pay him to make his proclamations. He is so universally disliked now people will do the opposite of what he preaches..

I love it when he's on as I am certain he does nothing but galvanise support for Leave. A bit like when Obama came over and told us we'd be at the back of the line for trade deals if we voted to leave. Thanks Obama - I don't think people realise just how much the Brits really don't like being told how to think.

 

[OxygenJames]

You can legitimately say that, but equally you must concede that sterling has dropped from 0.72 up to 0.90 , that is the a 26% deviation... . That is not speculation but fact!.

So. So what? So a lot of our exporters are having a field day at the moment. Winners and losers. They'll start buying sterling again once they think they can make a profit. Don't wait too long boys.

 

[Fingers]

People go on about how bad it would be with no deal. They should seriously sit down with my Mum and let her tell you some of her stories from the war. Where people were being actually killed. Families split apart. Men coming back torn to pieces. The bombing. The terror of it all.

I hear people talk about 'no-deal' with the same tone in their words. What nonsense it is.

We got through the war and we would get through whatever a 'no-deal' brought. It is what we voted for. To leave the EU. So we're not as 'prepared' logistically as we should be. Whatever. Welcome to democracy. Stop whining and get on with it.

Exactly. Even in the last 20 years or so we've had disasters predicted, Y2K bug, not joining the Euro, the banking collapse. Brexit 2 years ago meant an emergency budget the day after....

We will survive. The housing market needs correcting so higher interest rates will mean second and third houses being cheaper and needing to be sold. A lot of the doom stories may end up as good news for some of the poorer members of society.

People wanted a change but I actually doubt much will change in the short term. There will be wrinkles of course and bad days where leavers will shout I told you so but we will be fine and one day, one day probably far in the future a new fear will grip the zeitgeist. It may be Islam again. Maybe the Irish again or maybe even the Scottish separatists but Brexit will fade away slowly but surely.

 

[oyster]

£39 billions

Speaking of £39 billion, not that I know anything, but I rather assume the bill is effectively denominated in euros? If so, how come the amount remains stable despite considerable sterling/euro movements?

 

[Danidl]

People go on about how bad it would be with no deal. They should seriously sit down with my Mum and let her tell you some of her stories from the war. Where people were being actually killed. Families split apart. Men coming back torn to pieces. The bombing. The terror of it all.

I hear people talk about 'no-deal' with the same tone in their words. What nonsense it is.

We got through the war and we would get through whatever a 'no-deal' brought. It is what we voted for. To leave the EU. So we're not as 'prepared' logistically as we should be. Whatever. Welcome to democracy. Stop whining and get on with it.

I fully agree with you that total war is in a completely different league of misery . The point is that this is a totally self inflicted misery. Moreover it is not what you as a people voted for, and that statement is untrue.

 

[oldgroaner]

I love it when he's on as I am certain he does nothing but galvanise support for Leave. A bit like when Obama came over and told us we'd be at the back of the line for trade deals if we voted to leave. Thanks Obama - I don't think people realise just how much the Brits really don't like being told how to think.

Unfortunately there were wnough "Brits" as you call them were sufficiently gullible to be conned into voting for leave by people who simply told them how to think by conning them with the age old ruse that they were being victimised and treated with scorn and "project fear" was insulting their intelligence.
And incredibly this was done by the worst group of liars ever to become MP's !

The simplest way to control the people is to claim that the opposition are treating them as simple minded and you aren't.
Evoke the old patriotic "We stand resolute against foreign threats no matter what the odds" and there are sure to be plenty who swell with pride and follow.
Imagining themselves on the side of the Angels rather than the con men and parasites the leave politicians really are

By pretending you are on their side , with the right promises you can get enough to fall for the most outrageous lies, that you can deny afterwards.
And that is exactly what happened

 

[Fingers]

I fully agree with you that total war is in a completely different league of misery . The point is that this is a totally self inflicted misery. Moreover it is not what you as a people voted for, and that statement is untrue.

Again, your own confirmation bias shines through.

We voted to get out of the EU. That is what should happen.

The only misery is reading and hearing the wailing and gnashing of teeth from remainers in this country and even foreigners who are moaning.

 

[flecc]

People go on about how bad it would be with no deal. They should seriously sit down with my Mum and let her tell you some of her stories from the war. Where people were being actually killed. Families split apart. Men coming back torn to pieces. The bombing. The terror of it all.

I hear people talk about 'no-deal' with the same tone in their words. What nonsense it is.

We got through the war and we would get through whatever a 'no-deal' brought. It is what we voted for. To leave the EU. So we're not as 'prepared' logistically as we should be. Whatever. Welcome to democracy. Stop whining and get on with it.

I don't need my long dead mum to tell me, I lived through WW2 in London and remember it well enough.

It's exaggeration to say Remainers talk in those terms regarding No Deal, but what is forecast has very much in common with the decade following that war. I for one do not want to go back to that, and a complete break with the EU could easily bring that about before long.

Fortunately there seem to be enough sane people in UK politics and the influential civil service to make it likely that won't happen. It's just a pity they aren't sane enough to scrap the whole silly and impossible Brexit attempt, preferring to make us all worse off instead for a very long time, possibly always.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

Exactly. Even in the last 20 years or so we've had disasters predicted, Y2K bug, not joining the Euro, the banking collapse. Brexit 2 years ago meant an emergency budget the day after....

We will survive. The housing market needs correcting so higher interest rates will mean second and third houses being cheaper and needing to be sold. A lot of the doom stories may end up as good news for some of the poorer members of society.

People wanted a change but I actually doubt much will change in the short term. There will be wrinkles of course and bad days where leavers will shout I told you so but we will be fine and one day, one day probably far in the future a new fear will grip the zeitgeist. It may be Islam again. Maybe the Irish again or maybe even the Scottish separatists but Brexit will fade away slowly but surely.

More of your Whataboutery and now wishful thinking has replaced "We don't know what will happen"? and you predict thinks might turn out better in the end?
What a way to run a country
Out of control at the mercy of random factors that "We cant say will work out one way of the other"

So you voted for Brexit on the basis that you really simply didn't like the EU, but haven't a clue what that decision means but hope everything will work out in the end
Oh,and any facts that send to put that hopeful view in a bad light are negated by the "project Fear" filter in your head.

 

[oldgroaner]

Again, your own confirmation bias shines through.

We voted to get out of the EU. That is what should happen.

The only misery is reading and hearing the wailing and gnashing of teeth from remainers in this country and even foreigners who are moaning.

You need some original material that connects to Brexit, these old leave tropes are not a reasoned argument, just you being boring

 

[Fingers]

+++++++breaking news+++++

+++++++++++G unit has learned a new word+++++++++++

+++++++breaking news+++++

+++++++++++G unit has learned a new word+++++++++++

+++++++breaking news+++++

+++++++++++G unit has learned a new word+++++++++++

+++++++breaking news+++++

+++++++++++G unit has learned a new word+++++++++++

Will whataboutery usurp his also incorrectly used phrase 'click bait' or will he use it properly?

A million people are on tenterhooks!! or the 15 that post on here plus Rob of course.

So far so bad but I have hopes. I am after all an optimist.