Brexit, for once some facts.

Fingers

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 9, 2016
2,102
617
41
I occasionally look to see if you and he have grown up and have stopped clowing around.
Not so far, obviously
I'll check in now and again to see what latest silly comments you come up with.or even better gone away to bore people somewhere else.

Thank you old friend.

I appreciate the care you show and I look forward to the daily copy and pasting blitz in the morning.

We all do.

Take care old friend.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: tommie

anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
7,602
5,691
The European Union
All problems have simple solutions .These solutions are obvious to both very bright and very simple people. The solutions suggested by the very bright people usually work, the simple solutions proposed by the simple people usually don't. Guess which side of that divide I would place Ms Foster?.
Had she had the wisdom to step aside for a short period at the onset of the RHI ,as had been gently requested, you would have a parliament, she would be a working First Minister and the wrongness of the DUP stance, regarding Brexit would have been exposed. I am astonished by your provinces forebearance in this matter.
I suggest there is a little of the " royal we" in her saying " we discussed " , my expectation is that Simon would have nodded at most.
While the UK is nominally the 5 largest economy, it is sitting with no noticeable gap with the next three economies. Indeed the German economy , the one in 4th place is not quite double the UK value,. The point here being that by this time next year ut coukd have dropped to 9th place,with little effort
The EU being the worlds second largest economy by GDP, with or without the UK...
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
42,375
18,011
The EU being the worlds second largest economy by GDP, with or without the UK...
When we joined the EU we we were going into a national bankruptcy so severe that the IMF had to take over our governance during that decade to rescue us.

But only 46 years later we are the world's fifth largest economy, proof absolute how we've prospered during EU membership. As Fingers rightly says, we've never been better off.

Yet now the Leavers, including Fingers (!), want to take us back to the struggling and failing independence of the early 1970s.
.
 

anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
7,602
5,691
The European Union
When we joined the EU we we were going into a national bankruptcy so severe that the IMF had to take over our governance during that decade to rescue us.

But only 46 years later we are the world's fifth largest economy, proof absolute how we've prospered during EU membership. As Fingers rightly says, we've never been better off.

Yet now the Leavers, including Fingers (!), want to take us back to the struggling and failing independence of the early 1970s.
.
- "but we can't see the future"
- "stop being so negative, don't you love your country?"
- "everything will be fine, the EU needs us more than we need them"
- ...

Did I forget anything? :rolleyes:
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
42,375
18,011
- "but we can't see the future"
- "stop being so negative, don't you love your country?"
- "everything will be fine, the EU needs us more than we need them"
And here's my answers to their beliefs:

"but we can't see the future"

But I can see the precedent that shows the future.

"stop being so negative, don't you love your country?"

It's my love of country that inspires me to want to save it.

"everything will be fine, the EU needs us more than we need them"

They only need us as full members, not as outsiders.
.
 

Fingers

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 9, 2016
2,102
617
41
When we joined the EU we we were going into a national bankruptcy so severe that the IMF had to take over our governance during that decade to rescue us.

But only 46 years later we are the world's fifth largest economy, proof absolute how we've prospered during EU membership. As Fingers rightly says, we've never been better off.

Yet now the Leavers, including Fingers (!), want to take us back to the struggling and failing independence of the early 1970s.
.
Yet 35 years before the imf we were at war with Germany!

Things change very quickly. Don’t use the past as an iron clad barometer to predict the future.

It’s a fools game.
 

anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
7,602
5,691
The European Union
Yet 35 years before the imf we were at war with Germany!

Things change very quickly. Don’t use the past as an iron clad barometer to predict the future.

It’s a fools game.
I don't quite get what you saying there? How are bad financial choices and being at war 35 years before related?

Nobody can predict the future from what has happened in the past but you can have an educated guess. For example 2008 speculative bubble bursts ruining world economy. Since then other speculative bubbles have emerged, my educated guess is they will burst too in time.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
42,375
18,011
Things change very quickly. Don’t use the past as an iron clad barometer to predict the future.
Wrong, in this instance the past is a very accurate barometer.

The simple reason being that we haven't changed enough, the Leavers vote and the reasons they gave for that being identical to their post war beliefs that lead us into failure.

Now they want to do it again, and for the same baseless reasons.
.
 

anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
7,602
5,691
The European Union
Wrong, in this instance the past is a very accurate barometer.

The simple reason being that we haven't changed enough, the Leavers vote and the reasons they gave for that being identical to their post war beliefs that lead us into failure.

Now they want to do it again, and for the same baseless reasons.
.
Some people never learn... For example in rural France intelligent people do car sharing to get to work and thus are less affected by the increase in fuel tax, they pay 25% of fuel bills. The "independent" ones who can't do car sharing for some imagined reason are hanging out on roundabouts in high viz jackets...

If I was out in the country these days I would look for 3 like minded people and buy a Leaf or other electric car, each person having to finance a quarter. Quite easy to set up an association under the 1901 law which would own the car, pay the insurance etc and the four people would be members of the association.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
14,371
20,327
75
When we joined the EU we we were going into a national bankruptcy so severe that the IMF had to take over our governance during that decade to rescue us.

But only 46 years later we are the world's fifth largest economy, proof absolute how we've prospered during EU membership. As Fingers rightly says, we've never been better off.

Yet now the Leavers, including Fingers (!), want to take us back to the struggling and failing independence of the early 1970s.
.
They must truly love suffering, or Russia, of course.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
14,371
20,327
75
I don't quite get what you saying there? How are bad financial choices and being at war 35 years before related?

Nobody can predict the future from what has happened in the past but you can have an educated guess. For example 2008 speculative bubble bursts ruining world economy. Since then other speculative bubbles have emerged, my educated guess is they will burst too in time.
Remember what you are debating wih here, Fingers doesn't use logic, he uses Dogma.
Hence you are wasting your time.
Just look at this nonsense for instance
"
Things change very quickly. Don’t use the past as an iron clad barometer to predict the future.

It’s a fools game. "

But not as big a fools game as failing to learn from the past, but then when you factor in that leavers don't even partially comprehend the present, they are in no danger of benefiting from any application of logic, whatever it may be based on.

Wishful thinking is the name of their fools game.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
14,371
20,327
75
Wrong, in this instance the past is a very accurate barometer.

The simple reason being that we haven't changed enough, the Leavers vote and the reasons they gave for that being identical to their post war beliefs that lead us into failure.

Now they want to do it again, and for the same baseless reasons.
.
And ironically despite this not "believing anyone can predict the future" use these reasons that proved catastrophic in the past in the hope this time they will "get lucky"
 

jonathan.agnew

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 27, 2018
447
575
Thank you old friend.

I appreciate the care you show and I look forward to the daily copy and pasting blitz in the morning.

We all do.

Take care old friend.
well, whatever anyone else says, let me assure you, my honorable fellow forumite, that i find your conversion from thread sabotaging troll to dear old friend every bit as compelling as i am preparing to find boris' and gove's to remain after the second referendum. it emphatically does not seem like a charm offensive. nudge, nudge. wink, wink.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
42,375
18,011
If I was out in the country these days I would look for 3 like minded people and buy a Leaf or other electric car, each person having to finance a quarter.
Very sensible. The night rate fuel cost of my 2018 Nissan Leaf electric is equal to 200 mpg (4 miles per kWh average). One electricity supplier offers a very late night rate for charging at only 4.99 pence per kWh, which is equal to 400 mpg in my Leaf! If I wasn't a low mileage driver I'd change to that, but for me it's hardly worth bothering.

Split either of those four ways and no-one would even notice a cost.
.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: robdon

Fingers

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 9, 2016
2,102
617
41
well, whatever anyone else says, let me assure you, my honorable fellow forumite, that i find your conversion from thread sabotaging troll to dear old friend every bit as compelling as i am preparing to find boris' and gove's to remain after the second referendum. it emphatically does not seem like a charm offensive. nudge, nudge. wink, wink.

Thank you mate.

Appreciated.
 

Fingers

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 9, 2016
2,102
617
41
Very sensible. The night rate fuel cost of my 2018 Nissan Leaf electric is equal to 200 mpg (4 miles per kWh average). One electricity supplier offers a very late night rate for charging at only 4.99 pence per kWh, which is equal to 400 mpg in my Leaf! If I wasn't a low mileage driver I'd change to that, but for me it's hardly worth bothering.

Split either of those four ways and no-one would even notice a cost.
.
It would be even cheaper if you all lived in the same house.

Shared heating bills, food. Condoms etc.

It's the way forward for sure.
 

Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
4,886
7,090
68
Ireland
Some people never learn... For example in rural France intelligent people do car sharing to get to work and thus are less affected by the increase in fuel tax, they pay 25% of fuel bills. The "independent" ones who can't do car sharing for some imagined reason are hanging out on roundabouts in high viz jackets...

If I was out in the country these days I would look for 3 like minded people and buy a Leaf or other electric car, each person having to finance a quarter. Quite easy to set up an association under the 1901 law which would own the car, pay the insurance etc and the four people would be members of the association.
Slightly off topic, and maybe more applicable in more rural French villages than the one I visit. But a colleague of mine, made reference to all kinds of kit being owned by the local commune,or mayors office, ..stuff like small cement mixers cultivators ,shovels,ladders ,hoists and being readily available to the residents . Now my village or town, does have some of these things .. excellent library , a minibus for local groups ,free tennis courts, and a huge trailor used as a stage for outdoor community events . But the kind of kit for small once offs ..is it available where you are.. just curious?.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Wicky and robdon

anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
7,602
5,691
The European Union
Car sharing is very common in the Gers and the Landes, when I lived there my commute was 62 km one way so you can see why.

There is an association here called the Castors (Beaver in English) which you join if you want to build your own house. You get to use all that gear plus substantial discounts on materials.

It would be even cheaper if you all lived in the same house.

Shared heating bills, food. Condoms etc.

It's the way forward for sure.
Society used to work in the UK too in the past then this:

"They are casting their problems at society. And, you know, there's no such thing as society. There are individual men and women and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look after themselves first. It is our duty to look after ourselves and then, also, to look after our neighbours."
 
  • Agree
Reactions: robdon

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
42,375
18,011
It would be even cheaper if you all lived in the same house.
In one sense many of us do that already, living in flats as I do. Our heating transfer benefits the whole building, we share all the maintenance and gardening costs and often help others such as in giving lifts or clearing bulky refuse.
.
 
  • Agree
  • Like
Reactions: robdon and Fingers

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
42,375
18,011
Society used to work in the UK too in the past then this:

"They are casting their problems at society. And, you know, there's no such thing as society. There are individual men and women and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look after themselves first. It is our duty to look after ourselves and then, also, to look after our neighbours."
Yes, the sick attitude of Margaret Thatcher. David Cameron followed that policy of leaving people to help themselves, but ironically called it the Big Society.

Two Tories following the identical policy, one saying there is no society to make it work, the other depending on society to make it work!

You couldn't make it up.
.
 

Advertisers