Brexit, for once some facts.

OxygenJames

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Be careful. Brexit does need to be taken out ofTM’s hands, but that needs doing with sensitivity towards leave voters. If Brexit is thwarted with a blunt instrument, many millions who voted for, and still feel passionate about it will be seething with anger. They may not all take to the streets, but a percentage will. That is always dangerous as it can draw in others who don’t even care about Brexit, but just want civil unrest and looting. We have seen this happening before in the 1980s.

Bluntly thwarting Brexit will also leave a massive political hole due to millions feeling snubbed, double crossed and treated with contempt. That hole, made up of disgruntled Labour and Tory voters could be filled with something far worse than today’s situation.

We are in treacherous waters and need to navigate careful path.
Blood on the streets. The anger will be uncontainable.
 
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Nev

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I, d bet Tories sponsored that poll. Get Labour to call for a GE whilst led by Abbott and Costello...
Come on be honest, would anybody on here actually want Corbyn in power. He, s so obviously incapable of coping with it. He struggles in any interviews, debates or parliamentary sessions. He cant deliver any speech without continually refering to notes and even then gets things wrong.
Although I am Labour supporter and a remainer I think you have summed up Corbin fairly well. He is totally unsuited to be a leader of the Opposition let alone a PM, he can’t think on his feet. I would not be surprised if Labour fail to win the next GE. Incidentally why does JC never go on the Today programme on Radio 4?
How do they get in touch with people these days? Do they still phone? We do not have a landline (well, we do, but it is only there to permit broadband).

Anyway, the answer is that I have never been contacted by anyone I believed to be a polling organisation.
I was contacted by a polling organisation by land line just prior to the last GE. I’m 60 this year and that was the one and only time I have been contacted.
 
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50Hertz

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There is a bit of lighthearted news out there today to brighten things up. Comedy duo Corbyn & Abbott have made an official complaint to the BBC regarding Abbott’s treatment by the BBC on Question Time. Perhaps they could go one step further and complain about the entire population of the U.K. who also think they are a pair of idiots.
 

50Hertz

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It's meant as a statement of facts. I think there will be blood on the streets. Remember what we were told:

View attachment 28634
The blatant underreporting of ongoing French civil unrest is a sign that the U.K. establishment is worried. The petrol has soaked into the street and the vapour is lying heavily. Now what could possibly ignite it?
 

Woosh

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I watched BBC QT last Thursday.
Diane Abbott was too slow to respond, that's all it was.
Her opponent panelists, Rory Stewart and Isobel Oakshott, were 10 times quicker and also a lot more articulate.
Instead of letting the whole thing die, Diane Abbott's complaint makes her weakness even more noticeable for someone who occupies one of the most important jobs in the country.
I, like the audience, was put off by her hesitant comments. Keir Starmer or Barry Gardiner or Tom Watson should have taken her place for Labour.
Claiming racism by the BBC simply worsens her appreciation. Maybe it's time for her to retire.
 

Woosh

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The blatant underreporting of ongoing French civil unrest is a sign that the U.K. establishment is worried. The petrol has soaked into the street and the vapour is lying heavily. Now what could possibly ignite it?
their movement, like Occupy in London back in 2011-2012, demanded social justice and direct democracy, attracted a lot of hangers on and lasted 8 months
the Gilets Jaunes will continue for months to come but their number has largely reduced, down to about 30,000 on last Saturday. I reckon today a similar number will carry on fighting with the police.
I see them (those who still turn up in Paris on Saturdays) as 'casseurs', not demonstrators.
France has as just as many of them as UK football hooligans.
 

oldgroaner

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Be careful. Brexit does need to be taken out ofTM’s hands, but that needs doing with sensitivity towards leave voters. If Brexit is thwarted with a blunt instrument, many millions who voted for, and still feel passionate about it will be seething with anger. They may not all take to the streets, but a percentage will. That is always dangerous as it can draw in others who don’t even care about Brexit, but just want civil unrest and looting. We have seen this happening before in the 1980s.

Bluntly thwarting Brexit will also leave a massive political hole due to millions feeling snubbed, double crossed and treated with contempt. That hole, made up of disgruntled Labour and Tory voters could be filled with something far worse than today’s situation.

We are in treacherous waters and need to navigate careful path.
All of this was predicted, but the point to bear in mind is that if Brexit goes ahead and is a failure, not just the faction who voted for leave will be up in arms.
Not only will the remain voters be incensed, but everyone else as well!

The only way for the Government to cover it's collective backside is through another referendum, where they can shift the blame onto the public
 
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gray198

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There is a bit of lighthearted news out there today to brighten things up. Comedy duo Corbyn & Abbott have made an official complaint to the BBC regarding Abbott’s treatment by the BBC on Question Time. Perhaps they could go one step further and complain about the entire population of the U.K. who also think they are a pair of idiots.
diddums!!!
 
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oldgroaner

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Could well be possible the reason the polls got it so wrong is that Leave 'found' 3m or so voters that they targeted that had never ever voted before in anything. The kind of people pollsters might have struggled to find/contact themselves.

Plus - it was fashionable to say you were on the Remain side - saying you were for 'Leave' opened you up to being accused of racism and all the rest - so leave voters I think tended to stay 'shtum' about their intentions.

Same thing happened for Trump in the US - people who were for him kept it to themselves.

If there is another ref there's a good chance this time will be an even bigger vote for leave. Then what? Best out of 5?
then we shall watch the rest of the prediction come true several years going down hill before begging to rejoin the EU.
And by that time people will have realised the magnitude of the error we are about to commit.
In the long term it may prove a valuable lesson.
 
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Wicky

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It's meant as a statement of facts. I think there will be blood on the streets. Remember what we were told:

View attachment 28634
Well it would have been a done deal by The Government but then MPs in Parliament needed to okay the deal ('Take back control' or sumfink) thanks to Gina Miller ( 'Parliament alone is sovereign') So we've still got to watch it play out and if Parliament can't get something through then hopefully we'll go to extra time - before a penalty shoot out...
 
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Fingers

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No, not in my humble opinion, the facts speak for themselves
No one blows huge sums of money with no expectation of return when you have easy targets identified and in your sights like that.
Easy prey.

You don’t deal in facts
 

oldgroaner

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I’m not sure if the above is tainted with sarcasm or contempt for those who voted for Brexit. Maybe it’s both.
Not at all, it's an appreciation of how effecttive messages selected by profiling the target can be in motivating them into taking action.
If it wasn't a pretty sure method, millions wouldn't be invested by some pretty sharp operators in the process, unless of course you regard those people spending that money with sarcasm and contempt?
Undrestimating them is a very dangerous thing to do, and we are suffering the consequences right now.
They targetted the vulnerable because they knew who they were and what would motivate them.
Does that make the targets stupid? I have never said that.
 
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Fingers

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Not at all, it's an appreciation of how effecttive messages selected by profiling the target can be in motivating them into taking action.
If it wasn't a pretty sure method, millions wouldn't be invested by some pretty sharp operators in the process, unless of course you regard those people spending that money with sarcasm and contempt?
Undrestimating them is a very dangerous thing to do, and we are suffering the consequences right now.
They targetted the vulnerable because they knew who they were and what would motivate them.
Does that make the targets stupid? I have never said that.

Yes you have.

You have insulted leavers with stronger words than stupid since before I even joined here.

Don’t you start lying.
 
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50Hertz

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Jan 2, 2019
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All of this was predicted, but the point to bear in mind is that if Brexit goes ahead and is a failure, not just the faction who voted for leave will be up in arms.
Not only will the remain voters be incensed, but everyone else as well!

The only way for the Government to cover it's collective backside is through another referendum, where they can shift the blame onto the public
I agree. It’s the best of a range of undesirable outcomes.

Calling the referendum was a bad idea. Not planning for both eventualities before doing so was the biggest crime and a great disservice to the British people.
 

Danidl

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It's meant as a statement of facts. I think there will be blood on the streets. Remember what we were told:

View attachment 28634
OJ ,the Government is the collection of ministers at any one time, who hold their commissions or seals of office. It is not the Parliament or the State. Once a new general election is held, a new government is formed and is NOT bound by any decisions of a previous Government. It is however bound by decisions of previous Parliaments .
That is not a trivial distinction.
 
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50Hertz

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Jan 2, 2019
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I watched BBC QT last Thursday.
Diane Abbott was too slow to respond, that's all it was.
Her opponent panelists, Rory Stewart and Isobel Oakshott, were 10 times quicker and also a lot more articulate.
Instead of letting the whole thing die, Diane Abbott's complaint makes her weakness even more noticeable for someone who occupies one of the most important jobs in the country.
I, like the audience, was put off by her hesitant comments. Keir Starmer or Barry Gardiner or Tom Watson should have taken her place for Labour.
Claiming racism by the BBC simply worsens her appreciation. Maybe it's time for her to retire.
A man in the audience hit the nail on the head. He said something along the lines of the prospect of Abbott as Home Secretary was infinitely more worrisome than Brexit. That seemed to unite the entire building in applause. Perhaps all of Derbyshire is racist, or it could be that she is an unelectable clown. My money is on the latter.

It shows very poor judgment by Corbyn and indicates he is very disconnected from average folk.
 
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