Brexit, for once some facts.

[Danidl]

There's my ray of sunshine!

Fingers, ... Give over, when you have more life experience, you might see the wisdom in what flecc is saying. Allowing people to die naturally , without aggressive intervention can be a kindness.
However in the broader question of is this the best of times in the history of mankind ? I am inclined to agree that it is..for the many not the few.

 

[Nev]

This was his tweet about it:

View attachment 28958

As you can see - things have been getting WAY better for millions of people.

Sorry OG.

I found the following article very interesting, and as is usually the case things are never quite as straight forward as people often make them out to be.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/29/bill-gates-davos-global-poverty-infographic-neoliberal

 

[Fingers]

Fingers, ... Give over, when you have more life experience, you might see the wisdom in what flecc is saying. Allowing people to die naturally , without aggressive intervention can be a kindness.
However in the broader question of is this the best of times in the history of mankind ? I am inclined to agree that it is..for the many not the few.

I think that is a wholly different discussion to what I was saying.

 

[oldgroaner]

Absolute poverty (defined I believe as less than $1.90 a day adjusted for inflation) has dropped to just below 10% worldwide compared to I think a little over 30% in the 80s. Those are the facts.

And they do not give any idea of the scale of stress of people in this and other countries do they?
Are you seriously suggesting all is well?
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jan/24/most-children-in-uks-poorest-areas-now-growing-up-in-poverty

Most children in UK's poorest areas now growing up in poverty

It's a sign of how absurd the right wing view of poverty is that unless you require famine relief and are on the edge of death from starvation you are not in poverty, you are just a scrounger.

Your "facts" are simply misleading as they are based on standards of living no human being should have to tolerate to protect the rich.
And you put them forward as proof of progress?
Rubbish!

 

[oldgroaner]

Selfish attitude. Millions of Chinese are fantastically better off now.

Under a communist regime? how interesting that on the one hand they are "fantastically better off now" at the cost of being free.

What a marvellous expose of what your right wing ideas really mean.
Progress means being owned as a work unit.
No thanks!

 

[oldgroaner]

He can only drag you down to his level.

It's depressing to see.

If you want to get to my level you need to revise your direction of travel 180 degrees

 

[oldgroaner]

I think that is a wholly different discussion to what I was saying.

That appears to be true every time you post

 

[Zlatan]

And they do not give any idea of the scale of stress of people in this and other countries do they?
Are you seriously suggesting all is well?
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jan/24/most-children-in-uks-poorest-areas-now-growing-up-in-poverty

Most children in UK's poorest areas now growing up in poverty

It's a sign of how absurd the right wing view of poverty is that unless you require famine relief and are on the edge of death from starvation you are not in poverty, you are just a scrounger.

Your "facts" are simply misleading as they are based on standards of living no human being should have to tolerate to protect the rich.
And you put them forward as proof of progress?
Rubbish!

No, I dont think anyone said anything of kind. Fact is we are living with smallest percentage of world population in poverty than any other time in modern history.
And helped in no small measure by China raising its living standards to a point where bordering on a billion people have been taken out of poverty by essentially capitalism, and not communism.
Glad you didnt defend your random babble. Well done.
For those disagreeing, answer this.
Given a free choice as to when and where but after that a random choice, when and where would you choose to be born again.
I, d choose born 1960,Western Europe. Chances are you, d be well fed, have decent health care, have a job, get an education, learn to read and write, not go to war, draw a pension and die in peace. We really never have had it so good. But then again I escaped from Hull.
Put BBC 2 on. Portilo in Belfast.

 

[Danidl]

I think that is a wholly different discussion to what I was saying.

It may gave been ,but I interpreted it that way from fleccs posting.

 

[Fingers]

No, I dont think anyone said anything of kind. Fact is we are living with smallest percentage of world population in poverty than any other time in modern history.
And helped in no small measure by China raising its living standards to a point where bordering on a billion people have been taken out of poverty by essentially capitalism, and not communism.
Glad you didnt defend your random babble. Well done.
For those disagreeing, answer this.
Given a free choice as to when and where but after that a random choice, when and where would you choose to be born again.
I, d choose born 1960,Western Europe. Chances are you, d be well fed, have decent health care, have a job, get an education, learn to read and write, not go to war, draw a pension and die in peace. We really never have had it so good. But then again I escaped from Hull.
Put BBC 2 on. Portilo in Belfast.

2083. Sector 7 Flesh Unit 1887720. Omega class

I would see things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I would observe C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain but I will have seen them

 

[Woosh]

Absolute poverty (defined I believe as less than $1.90 a day adjusted for inflation) has dropped to just below 10% worldwide compared to I think a little over 30% in the 80s. Those are the facts.

food price has gone up a lot faster than bikes, TVs or fridges. So $1.90 a day would buy less food now than back in the 80s even after average inflation.
They should really compare absolute powerty to the price of 2 Big Macs a day.

 

[Nev]

2083. Sector 7 Flesh Unit 1887720. Omega class

I would see things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I would observe C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain but I will have seen them

One of my top 10 favorite films.

 

[Woosh]

• The new Cooper bill should be tabled for 27th Feb.
• it would give May until Wednesday 13 March to get a deal through parliament.
• It would be up to the government to decide how long the article 50 extension it would request would be.

Olly Robbins:

On the backstop, Robbins outlined a strategy to satisfy Theresa May's backbenchers, saying the European Commission would need to agree that the word “necessary” in the Northern Ireland protocol is defined as “necessary subject to the future trade deal”.

At the moment the text of the document says the backstop must “maintain the necessary conditions” for North-South cooperation under the Good Friday Agreement.
What is also striking is how Robbins confirmed that the original plan was for the backstop, which would keep the UK in the customs union, was designed not as a "safety net" for the island of Ireland but as "a bridge" to the long-term trading relationship - which is something the prime minister has always denied.

“The big clash all along is the ‘safety net’,” Robbins said. “We agreed a bridge but it came out as a ‘safety net’.”

 

[oldgroaner]

No, I dont think anyone said anything of kind. Fact is we are living with smallest percentage of world population in poverty than any other time in modern history.
And helped in no small measure by China raising its living standards to a point where bordering on a billion people have been taken out of poverty by essentially capitalism, and not communism.
Glad you didnt defend your random babble. Well done.
For those disagreeing, answer this.
Given a free choice as to when and where but after that a random choice, when and where would you choose to be born again.
I, d choose born 1960,Western Europe. Chances are you, d be well fed, have decent health care, have a job, get an education, learn to read and write, not go to war, draw a pension and die in peace. We really never had it so good. But then again I escaped from Hull.

I wasborn in the ruins of a devastated city lucky to een be here as Mother had been bombed out twice while carrying me and was brought up with actual knowledge of hardship, so I really don't require a lecture from you.

So I too would choose to be born 1960, but I wasn't.
I certainly would not willingly give up what we had, and yet you voted without even thinking about the likely consequences to take the risk of endangering all of those things by leaving the EU and placing your fate fully in the hands of the Worst Government and indeed opposition for a lifetime?

What leap of faith in a failed system (which you are demanding needs changing ) was that?
No one is riding to the rescue, it's more a case of vultures circling,and as I recall in your own words you saw this as an "opportunity to do some smart deals" as one of the reasons you voted leave.
That was of course after the original claim you made "I didn't vote" and the second version "I didn't mention I voted leave as I didn't want to be controversial"
These three statements are there on record.
"what smart deals" did you have in mind? Chumming up to America, which will cost us the NHS and much more, or do you prefer holding your nose and chumming up to China (ignoring the inconvenient Communist bit?)
And if you ever did come to Hull, exactly what did you do and have to escape from? we do of course have a rather large Prison.

Be truthful, you have a lot of hangups about the EU and you voted on a whim, in the Referendum not even believing the leave vote would win, it was just another Chancer bet, just a wager to you,with no inkling or care for the consequences.
And you still haven't, and don't care as you have the means and can skip the country when the going gets tough.

Exactly like the other champions of leave will, and are, already in the process of doing.

 

[oldgroaner]

• The new Cooper bill should be tabled for 27th Feb.
• it would give May until Wednesday 13 March to get a deal through parliament.
• It would be up to the government to decide how long the article 50 extension it would request would be.

Olly Robbins:

On the backstop, Robbins outlined a strategy to satisfy Theresa May's backbenchers, saying the European Commission would need to agree that the word “necessary” in the Northern Ireland protocol is defined as “necessary subject to the future trade deal”.

At the moment the text of the document says the backstop must “maintain the necessary conditions” for North-South cooperation under the Good Friday Agreement.
What is also striking is how Robbins confirmed that the original plan was for the backstop, which would keep the UK in the customs union, was designed not as a "safety net" for the island of Ireland but as "a bridge" to the long-term trading relationship - which is something the prime minister has always denied.

“The big clash all along is the ‘safety net’,” Robbins said. “We agreed a bridge but it came out as a ‘safety net’.”

Here comes the "Fudge" in all it's Glory and as I forecast what follows is the Big sell of this wonderful victory over the EU
May's Brino will win the day.

 

[Danidl]

• The new Cooper bill should be tabled for 27th Feb.
• it would give May until Wednesday 13 March to get a deal through parliament.
• It would be up to the government to decide how long the article 50 extension it would request would be.

Olly Robbins:

On the backstop, Robbins outlined a strategy to satisfy Theresa May's backbenchers, saying the European Commission would need to agree that the word “necessary” in the Northern Ireland protocol is defined as “necessary subject to the future trade deal”.

At the moment the text of the document says the backstop must “maintain the necessary conditions” for North-South cooperation under the Good Friday Agreement.

I do not think the EU would be impressed by a request to extend A50, received 14 march ,unless there was a hell of a lot of substance to it. A blank request would merit a blank refusal. You have heard the Poles and the Hungarians.

Re the additional words qualifying the word" necessary", are in fact unnecessary as they do not add or subtract anything. If a trade deal or set of protocols is developed which ensure that no hard border exists on the Island of Ireland ,then that IS the BACKSTOP. .

 

[Zlatan]

I do not think the EU would be impressed by a request to extend A50, received 14 march ,unless there was a hell of a lot of substance to it. A blank request would merit a blank refusal. You have heard the Poles and the Hungarians.

Re the additional words qualifying the word" necessary", are in fact unnecessary as they do not add or subtract anything. If a trade deal or set of protocols is developed which ensure that no hard border exists on the Island of Ireland ,then that IS the BACKSTOP. .

That tho Danidl would almost guarantee a no deal. Uk are in more of a bargaining position than you assume. Besides, whats to be gained by saying no to a minor delay...

 

[Woosh]

I do not think the EU would be impressed by a request to extend A50, received 14 march ,unless there was a hell of a lot of substance to it. A blank request would merit a blank refusal. You have heard the Poles and the Hungarians.

Re the additional words qualifying the word" necessary", are in fact unnecessary as they do not add or subtract anything. If a trade deal or set of protocols is developed which ensure that no hard border exists on the Island of Ireland ,then that IS the BACKSTOP. .

I think a deal is possible if the addition of “subject to the future trade deal” after "necessary" is sufficient for May to get over the line. In fact, the new wording does not change much in substance and suits the EU as much as TM.
The extension is only for administrative purpose. The end date for the IP is still same, the EU has no reason to stop it after TM gets Westminster's approval.

 

[flecc]

There's my ray of sunshine!

Opening up more time for illness is a sad fact though. The medics have been good at extending life and curing illness, but not very good at stopping illness occurring in the first place

My brother's is the most recent example. His heart was failing with repeated attacks, so open heart surgery fitted him with a new heart valve.

That gave him the chance to suffer bowel cancer two years later.
.

 

[Zlatan]

I think a deal is possible if the addition of “subject to the future trade deal” after "necessary" is sufficient for May to get over the line. In fact, the new wording does not change much in substance and suits the EU as much as TM.
The extension is only for administrative purpose. The end date for the IP is still same, the EU has no reason to stop it after TM gets Westminster's approval.

Again, the fact a no deal is the alternative adds pressure on MPs to vote hercdeal through. In effect next time its voted on the choices are no deal or Mays deal. Last time it wasnt.
I suspect its bound to get through.