Are you a Brexit supporter? argue out of this one if you can
Hilarious isn't it?
Hilarious isn't it?
Brexit, for once some facts.
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But you didn't get a result through democratic means it was polluted by illegal means so should have been re run.
What indeed is the point of voting when criminals can and did steal the result?
And it was as we now know a leave campaign based on lies and false promises that even when Brexit happens will leave us all in the hand either of these
1: The Conservative Party which is widely regarded as the worst and most incompetent of all time that created the mess we are in and is mired down, and they have managed to out off immigration from the EU but vastly increased it from everywhere else to the highest levels ever.
2: Corbyn who seems to see himself as a decrepit pound shop Citizen Smith doing a wannabee impression of Che Guevara to turn this country into a sort of Cuba.
With the facts that we have utter incompetents as a choice what the heck do you want to throw Brexit into the mess for.
Is it some sort of suicidal urge?
What can you offer as encouragement now for Brexit that will not be catastrophic for us all?
Just who is going to actually "take back control" "protect our borders" "promise prosperity" (not in 30 years time thank you very much)?
Who are you suggesting that is capable of doing any of that?
Good to learn and I hope the rapid progress continues. That's very quick to lose the crutches.
Of course it had to be the right one, showing the same disdain for the left.
.
To acknowledge our democratic electoral impotence?
.
Sweet. Thanks.Now I'm being used for therapeutic purposes by an enemy of the people, what fun!
Still glad to hear you are feeling better
You can only vote once, I could have signed the petition as many times as I had Email addresses and My mates/families names.Are you a Brexit supporter? argue out of this one if you can
Hilarious isn't it?
Back to Brexit... The following is an article from todays Irish Times....
I’ve noted on several occasions how the search for a Brexit solution resembles physicists’ hunt for dark matter. Without the existence of mysterious stuff that has mass several times that of the known universe, we wouldn’t, according to the equations, exist. Dark matter will either be eventually found or the equations rewritten.
Logic dictates that one or the other will happen, mostly based on mathematics. As with most forecasts, we can be confident something will happen, but not sure when. The puzzle of our existence will one day be solved but I fear that is not true of Brexit.
If there once was a potential Brexit solution, it no longer exists. The similarities with the search for dark matter have broken down. Scientists used to look for particles called Wimps (don’t ask) to explain the universe. The failure to find Wimps, despite years of looking, has convinced many boffins to give up. They believe dark matter must still be out there, it’s just a question of looking in a different place.
By contrast, we could spend the rest of time looking for the Brexit solution: that quest is as doomed as is the search for Wimps.
Quantum physics also teaches us that we live in a probabilistic world. That’s one similarity with Brexit that hasn’t disappeared. How have the probabilities changed now that Theresa May has been destroyed, like Thatcher, Major and Cameron before her, by the European question?
No deal
The chances of a no-deal Brexit are now higher than ever. Contingency planners would be well advised to consider it the most likely scenario. Lots of factors point to this outcome. Perhaps the biggest is that it’s the only one that Boris Johnson can both promise and deliver.
Another pointer to a hard Brexit is that Nigel Farage has managed to convince around one-third of the British electorate to demand one. Yet another is that the electors of the next prime minister - the 100,000 or so members of the Conservative party - also seem to want one. It’s a compelling narrative.
We know all the things that Johnson - or whoever is the next PM - can’t do. Anything Theresa May tried for one thing. To get elected, he or she will have to convince both MPs and Tory party members of something. The only plausible narrative is a hard Brexit.
Any guff over renegotiating the Withdrawal Agreement should be ignored. That Parliament as currently constituted would oppose a no-deal outcome is neither here nor there. The arcane procedures that previously allowed MPs to take some semblance of control over the process will not be allowed to recur.
All they will be permitted to do is to express non-binding opinions. Their only weapon will be a nuclear one: a no-confidence vote in the new PM that will in turn trigger a general election. Turkeys, Christmas and all that.
All that Johnson will have to do is precisely nothing: Britain leaves by strict rule of law at the end of October in the absence of something pretty dramatic happening.
Some analysts think that points to another extension. Johnson has already ruled that out and, even if he breaks that promise (always a possibility), European leaders, with President Macron of France in the vanguard, may well be minded not to grant another delay. What would be the point?
The problem is now unsolvable. Ironically, Farage has borrowed from two European political phenomena, one new, one old. Firstly, his digital campaign to create a mass political movement from scratch owes much to the methods that have installed the far-right in Italy.
Secondly, he has adapted the ‘stab-in-the-back’ myth that allowed ultra right-wing nationalists to gain power in Germany between the wars. His “Brexit-betrayal” speeches have given wings to the populist surge in Britain that, now unleashed, could lead anywhere.
Betrayal is cried anytime anyone suggests a policy that is not liked. In particular, anyone promoting a Brexit compromise is now immediately branded a traitor.
Compromise
Consequently, compromise now looks to be impossible. Anyone standing in the middle of the political road knows that they are likely to be run over. Pragmatic and self-interested politicians rush to stand anywhere but on that centre ground.
That all of this is both dangerous and volatile almost doesn’t need saying. Any politician who plots a way forward that tries to bring people together down a path of compromise risks almost certain failure.
Appearing to be reasonable and thoughtful is career suicide. How did British governance reach this state of affairs? Theresa May has a lot to answer for.
Even hard Brexit, probable though it is, won’t be the solution. It will be just the start - a chaotic if not catastrophic one - of another interminable process. One consequence will, in my view, be a likely break-up of the union.
Brexit is a quintessentially English nativist project.Those contingency planners would be well advised to think about not just hard Brexit but also a united Ireland.
I’ve noted on several occasions how the search for a Brexit solution resembles physicists’ hunt for dark matter. Without the existence of mysterious stuff that has mass several times that of the known universe, we wouldn’t, according to the equations, exist. Dark matter will either be eventually found or the equations rewritten.
Logic dictates that one or the other will happen, mostly based on mathematics. As with most forecasts, we can be confident something will happen, but not sure when. The puzzle of our existence will one day be solved but I fear that is not true of Brexit.
If there once was a potential Brexit solution, it no longer exists. The similarities with the search for dark matter have broken down. Scientists used to look for particles called Wimps (don’t ask) to explain the universe. The failure to find Wimps, despite years of looking, has convinced many boffins to give up. They believe dark matter must still be out there, it’s just a question of looking in a different place.
By contrast, we could spend the rest of time looking for the Brexit solution: that quest is as doomed as is the search for Wimps.
Quantum physics also teaches us that we live in a probabilistic world. That’s one similarity with Brexit that hasn’t disappeared. How have the probabilities changed now that Theresa May has been destroyed, like Thatcher, Major and Cameron before her, by the European question?
No deal
The chances of a no-deal Brexit are now higher than ever. Contingency planners would be well advised to consider it the most likely scenario. Lots of factors point to this outcome. Perhaps the biggest is that it’s the only one that Boris Johnson can both promise and deliver.
Another pointer to a hard Brexit is that Nigel Farage has managed to convince around one-third of the British electorate to demand one. Yet another is that the electors of the next prime minister - the 100,000 or so members of the Conservative party - also seem to want one. It’s a compelling narrative.
We know all the things that Johnson - or whoever is the next PM - can’t do. Anything Theresa May tried for one thing. To get elected, he or she will have to convince both MPs and Tory party members of something. The only plausible narrative is a hard Brexit.
Any guff over renegotiating the Withdrawal Agreement should be ignored. That Parliament as currently constituted would oppose a no-deal outcome is neither here nor there. The arcane procedures that previously allowed MPs to take some semblance of control over the process will not be allowed to recur.
All they will be permitted to do is to express non-binding opinions. Their only weapon will be a nuclear one: a no-confidence vote in the new PM that will in turn trigger a general election. Turkeys, Christmas and all that.
All that Johnson will have to do is precisely nothing: Britain leaves by strict rule of law at the end of October in the absence of something pretty dramatic happening.
Some analysts think that points to another extension. Johnson has already ruled that out and, even if he breaks that promise (always a possibility), European leaders, with President Macron of France in the vanguard, may well be minded not to grant another delay. What would be the point?
The problem is now unsolvable. Ironically, Farage has borrowed from two European political phenomena, one new, one old. Firstly, his digital campaign to create a mass political movement from scratch owes much to the methods that have installed the far-right in Italy.
Secondly, he has adapted the ‘stab-in-the-back’ myth that allowed ultra right-wing nationalists to gain power in Germany between the wars. His “Brexit-betrayal” speeches have given wings to the populist surge in Britain that, now unleashed, could lead anywhere.
Betrayal is cried anytime anyone suggests a policy that is not liked. In particular, anyone promoting a Brexit compromise is now immediately branded a traitor.
Compromise
Consequently, compromise now looks to be impossible. Anyone standing in the middle of the political road knows that they are likely to be run over. Pragmatic and self-interested politicians rush to stand anywhere but on that centre ground.
That all of this is both dangerous and volatile almost doesn’t need saying. Any politician who plots a way forward that tries to bring people together down a path of compromise risks almost certain failure.
Appearing to be reasonable and thoughtful is career suicide. How did British governance reach this state of affairs? Theresa May has a lot to answer for.
Even hard Brexit, probable though it is, won’t be the solution. It will be just the start - a chaotic if not catastrophic one - of another interminable process. One consequence will, in my view, be a likely break-up of the union.
Brexit is a quintessentially English nativist project.Those contingency planners would be well advised to think about not just hard Brexit but also a united Ireland.
But did you?. The guys in the Westminster office claim to have tools to stop it.
How can you stop it .. I could have signed using the wife's name,daughters name and my 2 sons names and my 4 email's (they have no interest in signing) how would anybody know. They have all used my Email's in the past when requesting tickets etc so I can print them off on my printer. You can't compare signing online to getting off your arris and going to the polling station.
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Again I am not privy to the tools they use, but basically any package of data sent on the internet can be traced back to the original node... It has to be, provided there is a will. Yes there are spoofing software and so called encryption sites, but their existence can be determined even if the path cannot be back negotiated through them.
However the equivalence of the numbers is unimportant, . The role of the petition was to elicit a response from the HoC, and once it did,there were no more names.
The key one was the vote last week.
If the new PM manages to get a successful indicative vote among tory and Unionist MPs, then the problem can be solved.
those who did not want May's deal did not want nor need May any longer.May's deal united us...…...Nobody wanted it
She has done the job they wanted from her: the withdrawal agreement.
Now they know what they need to know, they simply got rid of her to seize power from the tory moderates.
They may as well organise indicative votes in the summer. It's quite likely that they will agree on Canada+, just leave with no deal on October 31, wait until the EU agrees an FTA along the line of Canada+, resurrect the WA but this time with a 'technological solution' to the NI border, ie a fudge, do everything online and ignore a small number of fraudsters.
Sajid “power trousers” Javid announces his intention to run for Prime Minister. That should be worth about another 4% to the Brexit Party.
When will these toss-pots get the message?
When will these toss-pots get the message?
Farage is going to get a real disappointment if he imagines his BXP sham will be involved by the Government in negotiating Brexit.
I really can't see Parliament surrendering sovereignty to what should in fact be a subservient organisation that it expects to control!
He only got four more seats than last time and they ignored him then
If the new Tory rabble leader manages to avoid a General Election, Farage may as well in Zlatan's immortal words show his backside in the nearest Co-op Supermarket window
His ideas such as Health insurance instead of the NHS are poisonous to the public
I really can't see Parliament surrendering sovereignty to what should in fact be a subservient organisation that it expects to control!
He only got four more seats than last time and they ignored him then
If the new Tory rabble leader manages to avoid a General Election, Farage may as well in Zlatan's immortal words show his backside in the nearest Co-op Supermarket window
His ideas such as Health insurance instead of the NHS are poisonous to the public