Brexit, for once some facts.

oldgroaner

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Of course it's not over, but that's the point I'm making, all that cost AND 65,000 dead. Sweden managed the deaths without the costs and I'm betting they'll be overall better off in the end.

There'll be no book fiddling, it's other people's money which will have to be paid back. We'll all be paying that cost for many years as you'll see when your pension is taxed more.
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A minor consideration against the debacle of Brexit
 
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Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
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wooshbikes.co.uk
Michel Barnier hands Francois his backside (with compliments)
...
I wonder if Penfold will actually understand the letter?
no. Frenchmen waffle too much and said little new.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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I don't give any credence to the lives v cost equation, in fact I don't believe it even exists as an option to consider.
It not only exists, we use it all the time.

NICE, the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence exists to determine what drugs and medical equipment we can afford and often decides the cost is too high against the cost of patients dying, so the NHS don't get it and people die instead.

And every country is making the same decisions with Covid-19, deaths versus avoidance costs. We've just decided by prematurely easing lockdown to have some more deaths to stop even more costs to the economy.
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RossG

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 12, 2019
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It not only exists, we use it all the time.

NICE, the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence exists to determine what drugs and medical equipment we can afford and often decides the cost is too high against the cost of patients dying, so the NHS don't get it and people die instead.

And every country is making the same decisions with Covid-19, deaths versus avoidance costs. We've just decided by prematurely easing lockdown to have some more deaths to stop even more costs to the economy.
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You used the word ' we ' in your response three times flecc, hopefully that doesn't include me!
The almighty created me and so will decide when I must stand aside not NICE, Boris or Cummings !
I used my own "Care & Excellence" to protect my partner & myself during this crisis ... a mask, one of those things everybody said didn't work but now say otherwise hence I now have around 50 or so masks ready for the next onslaught.
My partner takes an Arthritis drug that the NHS says they won't supply her with because of cost, no problem we buy it from overseas at great cost but she needs it so she gets it, the price is totally irrelevant to both of us.
We don't have to wait for history to show us if the approach taken here in the UK was right or wrong, it's already shown itself to be an almost total catastrophe.
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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It's the national "We", sometimes called the Royal We.



Really?

Well I hope you don't cause as much aggro as the last one 2000 odd years ago, one was more than enough.
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This made me smile; my father told me I owed my existence to
Erwin Rommel.
When I asked why his reply was typical
"If his troops had been better shots you wouldn't be here...":cool:
 
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RossG

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 12, 2019
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It's the national "We", sometimes called the Royal We.



Really?

Well I hope you don't cause as much aggro as the last one 2000 odd years ago, one was more than enough.
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Nah, I never say the Royal We. I rather like the Queen having met her more than once but that said she speaks for the nation and I speak for me. When the nation acts in my best interests they'll get my undivided, until then I'll look out for myself & partner as best I can.
I'm not Religious, not at all but I visit Churches almost every place I visit because they are the centre of the world for many so I respect that and act accordingly.
 

Barry Shittpeas

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 1, 2020
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I see Labour has resorted to the politics of hatred and envy. Their shadow housing minister, Tambourine Debonair, a person who has brought all of her expertise as a cellist to the housing situation (yes really), is calling for the stamp duty break to be withdrawn for second home owners. Why? Just because someone has scraped a few quid together to invest, as opposed to spunking it away on fags, cars, holidays and PlayStation games, why should they be penalised with extra taxes? Put up income taxes and reduce tax for low paid workers, but don’t tax assets that people have worked and saved for, you ******* stupid mental cow. Go back to plucking strings.
 
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RossG

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 12, 2019
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I do wonder where her surname comes from, It's not her maiden name or her husbands surname maybe she just thought it up.
 

Barry Shittpeas

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 1, 2020
2,325
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I do wonder where her surname comes from, It's not her maiden name or her husbands surname maybe she just thought it up.
Who knows what’s going off in these people’s heads apart from hatred, envy and hypocrisy. The main thing is to make sure that no one takes any notice of them and that they never get into a position where they can do anything.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,807
30,379
I do wonder where her surname comes from, It's not her maiden name or her husbands surname maybe she just thought it up.
Her birth surname was Singh, so she probably changed it by deed poll. It is dreamed up since it's spelt with double b and an e ending as Debbonaire, not as Barry has shown it in it's original spelling.
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Barry Shittpeas

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 1, 2020
2,325
3,210
Surprised Creda haven't gone after her.
That takes me back. My mother had one of those. I remember it dancing around the kitchen on Monday mornings when it got out of balance. It was at its most spectacular as it accelerated through its resonant frequency towards N1 max. It’s a shame that the Labour minister isn’t as interesting as that spin drier.
 
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Danidl

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Sep 29, 2016
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You used the word ' we ' in your response three times flecc, hopefully that doesn't include me!
The almighty created me and so will decide when I must stand aside not NICE, Boris or Cummings !
I used my own "Care & Excellence" to protect my partner & myself during this crisis ... a mask, one of those things everybody said didn't work but now say otherwise hence I now have around 50 or so masks ready for the next onslaught.
My partner takes an Arthritis drug that the NHS says they won't supply her with because of cost, no problem we buy it from overseas at great cost but she needs it so she gets it, the price is totally irrelevant to both of us.
We don't have to wait for history to show us if the approach taken here in the UK was right or wrong, it's already shown itself to be an almost total catastrophe.
Ross, While I can symphasise with your sentiments, i am afraid that every government and health provider, indeed every medical practitioner has to do this balancing act every day. The cost benefit analysis is carried out continuously, in some cases the medical profession will call it" quality of life "issues . E.g My mother was denied a hip replacement because the prospects of a recovery into what was chalk like bone was highly problematic, My mother in law was denied a full general dental treatment on a number of rotten teeth, because the anastetic would scramble the few wits she had left. my father in law was unfortunately prepped for surgery , with a burst vena cava , because the medical team were made fear litigation... so instead of comfortably saying goodbye to his children he bleed out on the table.
the exact same calculation are done on regional and national level. Who decides, where the ambulances are located? and how amny?
 

Barry Shittpeas

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 1, 2020
2,325
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Making face coverings mandatory in shops in England is being considered by the government to slow the spread of coronavirus, senior sources have said.”

The government has said that face masks are ineffective and do more harm than good? Why are they trying to endanger us by making us wear these harmful devices?
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
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West West Wales
44 million pounds, as a fine, is a huge amount. Can we assume G4S will have all other public sector contracts revoked and handed to companies which don't commit such fraud?

Thought not.

Can we see any of those who were involved go to gaol?

Thought not.

G4S fined £44m by Serious Fraud Office over electronic tagging

Agreement means security firm will avoid prosecution for overcharging the government for tagging offenders
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jul/10/g4s-fined-44m-by-serious-office-over-electronic-tagging
 

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