Brexit, for once some facts.

[Jesus H Christ]

I don't think it's the EU, I think it is Italy that has stopped the export of some AZ vaccine to Australia using rules created by the EU.

I was listening to a spokesman of the Australian government this morning and they said if the Italian Foreign minister had contacted the Australian Foreign minister and asked could they keep the 250,000 doses of the AZ vaccine contracted to be delivered to Australia then they would have agreed to that. The Italians had over 20,000 covid cases yesterday while the Australians had 11.

The EU have not handled the vaccine procurement at all well but things should start improving this month because if the projections are correct, vaccine supply from all the approved manufacturers is supposed to be greatly increased this month.

Yes I agree, the vaccine is in more urgent need in Italy and I’m sure the Aussies would have agreed to helping them, if they’d asked.

It’s such an ugly practice though, to invent a rule that effectively allows an EU state to pilfer a life saving product that has been ordered legitimately by another country. The ugliness is compounded by the fact that the shortage within the EU is largely their own fault. If they’d moved with nimbleness at the beginning, they could have been in a much better position.

This is making the EU look bad on the world stage and I’m sure it’s yet another reason they’ll want to bury the whole sorry episode and not take AZ to one if their Kangaroo Courts (a little reference to Australia there).

 

[Jesus H Christ]

Especially so with 3 million doses sat in storage in Berlin. They aren't doing themselves any favours. Bet Boris will come to rescue of our favourite common wealth country.??? Argument is over a mere 250k doses... Not enough to change any body's strategy but enough to do political harm.??

I think it would be a good gesture if the U.K. gave the EU some of our vaccine stock. Help and advice based on our experience of setting up vaccine delivery would be a good thing too. Nobody is safe until we are all safe with this virus and it’s in the UKs interest to help the EU sort out their problems.

 

[daveboy]

I think it would be a good gesture if the U.K. gave the EU some of our vaccine stock. Help and advice based on our experience of setting up vaccine delivery would be a good thing too. Nobody is safe until we are all safe with this virus and it’s in the UKs interest to help the EU sort out their problems.

Bet it wouldn't get held up at the ports.

 

[Zlatan]

I think it would be a good gesture if the U.K. gave the EU some of our vaccine stock. Help and advice based on our experience of setting up vaccine delivery would be a good thing too. Nobody is safe until we are all safe with this virus and it’s in the UKs interest to help the EU sort out their problems.

We have ended up either by luck or design in a very good position. I suspect our govt backed lots of companies suspecting at best only half would deliver. (ie work) Turns out all those backed did in fact pass final trials.
So procurement looks like below.


Suspect EU and specifically France's issues were worsened when the French backed vaccine failed to pass authorisation, that exaggerated the late order problem with AZ,or put far more pressure on it than expected.
I do agree, we should help out. If all goes as planned we should have ample supplies both for ourselves and to help Covax.
Its quite telling if you Google "UK vaccine procurement" the linked diagram pops up.
Repeat for "EU vaccine procurement" and you get the AZ argument saga.???
I believe the included diagram is actually out of date, believe we now have firm orders for in excess of 400 million jabs.
Kate Bingham should be knighted??? Well sort of.

 

[oldgroaner]

Especially so with 3 million doses sat in storage in Berlin. They aren't doing themselves any favours. Bet Boris will come to rescue of our favourite common wealth country.??? Argument is over a mere 250k doses... Not enough to change any body's strategy but enough to do political harm.??

Here we go again the decision was made by Italy not the EU, not that that will register of course, as that would be accepting EU nations are sovereign in their own right.

And have you checked on the bans on exporting Covid related drugs by the UK?
https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-coronavirus-
vaccine-astrazeneca-export-boris-johnson/
"Yet, while Johnson hit out at the EU for weighing export controls on vaccines, the British government itself has a list of 174 medicines that are currently banned from export from the U.K., because they “are needed for UK patients.” Additions to the list in 2020 included around 100 medicines that have been suggested as possible treatments for COVID-19 patients or are being used to alleviate symptoms of COVID-19 patients in intensive care units. "

Here comes "Not the same as vaccines crap"
from the usual suspects

 

[oldgroaner]

Bet it wouldn't get held up at the ports.

Perhaps not but plenty is getting stopped at the ports on the way out from here

"the British government itself has a list of 174 medicines that are currently banned from export from the U.K., because they “are needed for UK patients.” Additions to the list in 2020 included around 100 medicines that have been suggested as possible treatments for COVID-19 patients or are being used to alleviate symptoms of COVID-19 patients in intensive care units. "

We aren't supposed to notice that are we?

 

[oldgroaner]

We have ended up either by luck or design in a very good position. I suspect our govt backed lots of companies suspecting at best only half would deliver. (ie work) Turns out all those backed did in fact pass final trials.
So procurement looks like below.
View attachment 41101

Suspect EU and specifically France's issues were worsened when the French backed vaccine failed to pass authorisation, that exaggerated the late order problem with AZ,or put far more pressure on it than expected.
I do agree, we should help out. If all goes as planned we should have ample supplies both for ourselves and to help Covax.
Its quite telling if you Google "UK vaccine procurement" the linked diagram pops up.
Repeat for "EU vaccine procurement" and you get the AZ argument saga.???
I believe the included diagram is actually out of date, believe we now have firm orders for in excess of 400 million jabs.
Kate Bingham should be knighted??? Well sort of.

And how many are we getting regularly, which is rather more relevant

 

[Jesus H Christ]

And how many are we getting regularly, which is rather more relevant

Enough to have vaccinated 21000000 people and still going.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

We have ended up either by luck or design in a very good position. I suspect our govt backed lots of companies suspecting at best only half would deliver. (ie work) Turns out all those backed did in fact pass final trials.
So procurement looks like below.
View attachment 41101

Suspect EU and specifically France's issues were worsened when the French backed vaccine failed to pass authorisation, that exaggerated the late order problem with AZ,or put far more pressure on it than expected.
I do agree, we should help out. If all goes as planned we should have ample supplies both for ourselves and to help Covax.
Its quite telling if you Google "UK vaccine procurement" the linked diagram pops up.
Repeat for "EU vaccine procurement" and you get the AZ argument saga.???
I believe the included diagram is actually out of date, believe we now have firm orders for in excess of 400 million jabs.
Kate Bingham should be knighted??? Well sort of.

I think Kate Bingham can take a lot of credit for that. She was one of the few unpaid advisors.

Bingham built a huge amount of redundancy into the procurement programme. She was decisive enabling early orders to be place, she backed seven vaccines which were unproven and that strategy has paid off in spectacular fashion. So spectacular that the U.K. is going to be in a great position to help poorer nations.

The U.K. has also moved to enable us to react more quickly to modify vaccines to combat Covid variants. We’ve got vaccine and vaccination right.

 

[oyster]

I don't think it's the EU, I think it is Italy that has stopped the export of some AZ vaccine to Australia using rules created by the EU.

I was listening to a spokesman of the Australian government this morning and they said if the Italian Foreign minister had contacted the Australian Foreign minister and asked could they keep the 250,000 doses of the AZ vaccine contracted to be delivered to Australia then they would have agreed to that. The Italians had over 20,000 covid cases yesterday while the Australians had 11.

The EU have not handled the vaccine procurement at all well but things should start improving this month because if the projections are correct, vaccine supply from all the approved manufacturers is supposed to be greatly increased this month.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1367607009890037763

 

[Danidl]

I don't think it's the EU, I think it is Italy that has stopped the export of some AZ vaccine to Australia using rules created by the EU.

I was listening to a spokesman of the Australian government this morning and they said if the Italian Foreign minister had contacted the Australian Foreign minister and asked could they keep the 250,000 doses of the AZ vaccine contracted to be delivered to Australia then they would have agreed to that. The Italians had over 20,000 covid cases yesterday while the Australians had 11.

The EU have not handled the vaccine procurement at all well but things should start improving this month because if the projections are correct, vaccine supply from all the approved manufacturers is supposed to be greatly increased this month.

It was the EU directive issued on 30 th. January, which required a special license for any vaccines produced from within the EU to be exported outside of the EU, within s three month window. This was introduced as an emergency response because of the AZ failure to have the goods in stock ,in breach of the contract . Actions have consequences, and Australia ,like the UK is a third country outside of the EU. There was no theft. Italy had no option under EU rules but to cancel the shipment.

 

[Zlatan]

And how many are we getting regularly, which is rather more relevant

Think if you did homework rather than prejudge you wouldn't make silly comments.
AZ are supplying 2 million per week and expect that to rise. Much of our supply is being made in UK. (new factories in Scotland and Stockton on Tees)
All involved see no reason, because of early agreements on contracts and tight tolerances with respect to delays and penalties, why supply shouldn't match orders placed. It has done so far.
Like I said Kate Bingham deserves a medal.
Approaching 22 million jabs given by end of today. The Italian/Australian order represented one day of usage in UK. Says something.
The Australians/EU/Italy are squabbling over an amount we use up in 10 hours.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

It was the EU directive issued on 30 th. January, which required a special license for any vaccines produced from within the EU to be exported outside of the EU, within s three month window. This was introduced as an emergency response because of the AZ failure to have the goods in stock ,in breach of the contract . Actions have consequences, and Australia ,like the UK is a third country outside of the EU. There was no theft. Italy had no option under EU rules but to cancel the shipment.

Well they did have several options. They had the option to allow the shipment to go to Australia and they had the option to dab-in and get the vaccine ordered in a timely fashion.

The vaccine is in the right place though. Italy’s needs are far greater than third countries Australia and the U.K. at this time. All Italy / EU needed to do was ask and help would have been on the way. They’ve let themselves down over this.

AZ have complied fully with the “best effort” to fulfil its contractual obligations. The EU would never dare take this to court though, it would be far to embarrassing for them

 

[Danidl]

Enough to have vaccinated 21000000 people and still going.

The figures are confusing and trying to cut through the forest for the trees almost impossible. The simple question I was trying to answer is was . Which vaccines are being used, at what rate and what is the production rate. The graphic indicates how many in total the UK has put dibs on..not what they have used., Since many of these have nit yet been certified, they are just futures options. The Irish covid app, gives this information on a daily ( well it lags by a few days) basis, so we know that 93% are Pfizer and 5% are AZ and the remainder Moderna. In Irish arms
I doubt that the UK has succeeded in getting much if any Moderna, and the figures for the total amount of Pfizer purchased, will be a yearly total, so per month, will be about 1/10. .. So hoe was the 20M doses achieved...and at whose expense?.

 

[oldgroaner]

Enough to have vaccinated 21000000 people and still going.

Where are they then???

 

[Jesus H Christ]

The figures are confusing and trying to cut through the forest for the trees almost impossible. The simple question I was trying to answer is was . Which vaccines are being used, at what rate and what is the production rate. The graphic indicates how many in total the UK has put dibs on..not what they have used., Since many of these have nit yet been certified, they are just futures options. The Irish covid app, gives this information on a daily ( well it lags by a few days) basis, so we know that 93% are Pfizer and 5% are AZ and the remainder Moderna. In Irish arms
I doubt that the UK has succeeded in getting much if any Moderna, and the figures for the total amount of Pfizer purchased, will be a yearly total, so per month, will be about 1/10. .. So hoe was the 20M doses achieved...and at whose expense?.

Ordered early, received early, injected early. That’s how the U.K. did it.

Ordered late, received late, injecting late. That’s how the EU are in such a mess.

As I said earlier, my 70 year old friend in France still has no vaccination date. There’s a lot of anger in the EUs direction over that.

 

[Danidl]

Well they did have several options. They had the option to allow the shipment to go to Australia and they had the option to dab-in and get the vaccine ordered in a timely fashion.

The vaccine is in the right place though. Italy’s needs are far greater than third countries Australia and the U.K. at this time. All Italy / EU needed to do was ask and help would have been on the way. They’ve let themselves down over this.

AZ have complied fully with the “best effort” to fulfil its contractual obligations. The EU would never dare take this to court though, it would be far to embarrassing for them

According to a AZ corporate publicity statement on 19th. Feb, they reference 17 M doses produced . The context suggests it was in storage waiting for EMA approval. This was in the context of ramping UP production to 2M per week ..but then 2 weeks later, they say they can deliver at best 40% . Newspaper reports in December ,when UK validation was active, there were comments about glitches in UK production and they would be taking product from Europe. Indeed today, they are discussing importation to the UK from India.
Just making the Italian situation very clear. No they did not have clearance or an export licence to send a vial outside the EU. The EU had issued an Emergency Directive at end January,.no export outside the EU without a licence from the EU. Remember the kerfuffle on 31st Jan, regarding NI Protocol?. ...that was part of it.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

Where are they then???

Sorry I was mistaken, it’s 22000000 not 21000000. The rate of vaccination is so rapid it’s difficult to keep up.

Where is it? It’s in people’s bloodstream making precious antibodies and T cells.

And so our marvellous vaccination programme continues.

 

[oldgroaner]

Think if you did homework rather than prejudge you wouldn't make silly comments.
AZ are supplying 2 million per week and expect that to rise. Much of our supply is being made in UK. (new factories in Scotland and Stockton on Tees)
All involved see no reason, because of early agreements on contracts and tight tolerances with respect to delays and penalties, why supply shouldn't match orders placed. It has done so far.
Like I said Kate Bingham deserves a medal.
Approaching 22 million jabs given by end of today. The Italian/Australian order represented one day of usage in UK. Says something.
The Australians/EU/Italy are squabbling over an amount we use up in 10 hours.

I asked a straightforward question
And how many are we getting regularly, which is rather more relevant

"Think if you did homework rather than prejudge you wouldn't make silly comments.
Let me answer that

I think if you actually replied to my question rather than prejudge you wouldn't make silly comments.
And your answer was non factual, just this for example
"All involved see no reason, because of early agreements on contracts and tight tolerances with respect to delays and penalties, why supply shouldn't match orders placed. It has done so far."
You mentioned AZ, but none of the others.
In other words you can't answer the question as you have no more idea of the numbers than I have.

Honestly you can't help yourself, can you?

 

[oldgroaner]

Sorry I was mistaken, it’s 22000000 not 21000000. The rate of vaccination is so rapid it’s difficult to keep up.

Where is it? It’s in people’s bloodstream making precious antibodies and T cells.

And so our marvellous vaccination programme continues.

We'll soon have the job half done!
If our vaccination program was marvellous, by now we would be nearing 100%

It's good but not marvellous