Brexit, for once some facts.

[Jesus H Christ]

It doesn't matter, it's exaggeration.

Your union flag waving cheer leading is as wrong as it was with the AZ vaccine, which usage now even the UK is restricting.
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That’ll be not many cases then?

 

[flecc]

That’ll be not many cases then?

It doesn't matter how few when the deaths are entirely avoidable. That's why Denmark has sensibly dropped all use of the AZ.
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[Jesus H Christ]

It doesn't matter how few when the deaths are entirely avoidable. That's why Denmark has sensibly dropped all use of the AZ.
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Can’t see how stopping using a vaccine, with a risk factor which is minuscule by comparison to the disease it protects against, is sensible.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

It doesn't matter how few when the deaths are entirely avoidable. That's why Denmark has sensibly dropped all use of the AZ.
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Definitely not many cases. Thanks for confirmation of my suspicion. Guardian

 

[jonathan.agnew]

My analysis suggests that death rates , globally have been underestimated. I would think by about 40% to 50% . The figures are sitting at 3M dead , but I suspect the real figure is more like 4.5M. against that are the lives saved by reduced road traffic, road air pollution, reduced flu deaths, against that are the other things like delayed diagnosis ..so the overall profit and loss accounts are really difficult to figure out. What we do know is that a lot of things we viewed as essential are merely trappings s.

Yes, after the 08 financial crisis the message was "that we could not possibly survive another economic blow, that we'd have nothing left to fight it with". Now all of that seem a minor inconvenience. I like that about the pandemic. A healthy readjustment of perspective.

 

[flecc]

Can’t see how stopping using a vaccine, with a risk factor which is minuscule by comparison to the disease it protects against, is sensible.

It's entirely sensible when just as good alternative vaccines are available without that risk.
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[Jesus H Christ]

It's entirely sensible when just as good alternative vaccines are available without that risk.
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It would make sense if an abundance of vaccine was available. Which it isn’t. So it’s not sensible. It’s ridiculous.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

It would make sense if an abundance of vaccine was available. Which it isn’t. So it’s not sensible. It’s ridiculous.

Its perennial (and probably not altogether bad). We on the thread are like an eccentric (ageing) herd of yak, forever charging at each other, butting heads (and the fact that there arent any nubile female yaks about seem quite irrelevant)

 

[Woosh]

It would make sense if an abundance of vaccine was available. Which it isn’t. So it’s not sensible. It’s ridiculous.

it's not ridiculous. Those who are in the at risk group of blood clots are given an alternative vaccine.
I was given the AZ at my first jab - I don't belong to the at risk group of blood clots, I don't need an alternative vaccine for my second jab but my daughter would.

 

[flecc]

It would make sense if an abundance of vaccine was available. Which it isn’t. So it’s not sensible. It’s ridiculous.

On the one hand you are arguing to keep the risks in perspective. Why not continue in that vein and recognise how small the Covid risk is for most of their population?

Only a very few of the Danes will catch Covid-19 and most of them will only have minimal symptoms or none at all. In view of that fact, to give all of them a vaccine that has a risk of death, albeit very small, is foolish, especially when their overall Covid death rate is only a quarter of ours and they are using other vaccines meanwhile.
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[Woosh]

I suppose the world needs a strategy to get to herd immunity without killing too many [young] people.
Vaccines are probably the cheapest and fastest means to do that.

 

[flecc]

I suppose the world needs a strategy to get to herd immunity without killing too many [young] people.
Vaccines are probably the cheapest and fastest means to do that.

Fastest, but not cheapest.

The cheapest way is to stay calm, keep to a consistent policy and let the spread of mostly moderate to asymptomatic cases gain herd immunity. That does produce more deaths for a while, but those are overwhelmingly of the elderly or severely compromised who would be dying shortly anyway.

If it's more the occasional deaths of the young that is of concern, then the vaccine policy should be be reversed, applying it to the youngest age group first and then on up, as some Oriental countries are doing.
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[Woosh]

I think vaccines may be more effective against future variants compared to naturally acquired immunity.

If it's more the occasional deaths of the young that is of concern, then the vaccine policy should be be reversed, applying it to the youngest age group first and then on up, as some Oriental countries are doing.

Agreed.

 

[oyster]

Why not continue in that vein

Because the vaccines are intramuscular injections?

 

[flecc]

I think vaccines may be more effective against future variants compared to naturally acquired immunity.

Maybe, but the natural way works ok and costs nothing. It completely stopped the far, far worse pandemic of the black death which we no longer die of.
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[Woosh]

Maybe, but the natural way works ok and costs nothing. It completely stopped the far, far worse pandemic of the black death which we no longer die of.
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people use a lot more energy and run far higher risk of damaging their organs fighting the real virus than preparing for it.
There was a guy on TV describing how he felt about covid: he had no symptoms for 5 days then his lungs seem to have been blown up.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

Maybe, but the natural way works ok and costs nothing. It completely stopped the far, far worse pandemic of the black death which we no longer die of.
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The black death wouldn't go down too well with an overindulged the sun reading corry watching fat arsed smug quite thick mainly conservative electorate with delusions of grandeur. And it was, to be fair, a bit rough

 

[Danidl]

Can’t see how stopping using a vaccine, with a risk factor which is minuscule by comparison to the disease it protects against, is sensible.

I did refer to this all earlier . In terms of public health safety, ..vaccinate everyone and live with the collateral damage..Which is fine if you or your family are not one of the collaterally damaged . For me with my age profile, accepting any of the vaccines is a no brainer. Not so for my 30 year old daughter.
If it turns out that a slightly different formulation reduces the health impact on her age group, why not use it?. It is normal practice in vaccination science to continually upgrading formulations to maximise performance and minimise alternative effects.
The problem with your analysis is that you have ignored the evidence of age ..and possibly gender related effects.

 

[flecc]

people use a lot more energy and run far higher risk of damaging their organs fighting the real virus than preparing for it.

We're going in circles, that doesn't apply to the vast majority who get only a mild outcome or none at all

There was a guy on TV describing how he felt about covid: he had no symptoms for 5 days then his lungs seem to have been blown up.

What did the rest of the 4.38 millions who've caught it have to say about it?
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[oldgroaner]

The Telegraph has become a Science Fiction "pulp"
"
Britain’s economic resurgence has caught the whole world by surprise
The numbers all point to blistering growth as the hit from Brexit continues to diminish each month

Well we have sold ourselves lots of Booze and junk

The Guardian. Say n’more.

You prefer the Telegraph?
Britain’s economic resurgence has caught the whole world by surprise
The numbers all point to blistering growth as the hit from Brexit continues to diminish each month

All true blue believers will believe
The Telegraph .say n'more