Brexit, for once some facts.

jonathan.agnew

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Dec 27, 2018
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Odd that our vaccination centre is in a detached working men's club with no special facilities.
Sorry not buying the idea it can't be done by the NHS our Pfizer vaccine was, en masse. staffed by the local GP's
Ours was. Unhygienic unventilated local hospital (with rich history of superbugs and special investigations) and army of (rather nice dedicated) nhs staff and ex nursing and gp volunteers all.
 
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Zlatan

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Nov 26, 2016
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So, random question - I've had a DNA (I'm free, I'm free!) and found Danidl's post (about "local places" and "sticking things into oneself") arousing (as always). And a bit thought provoking. Pandemic aside, why are all of you still on soggy isle if you're free (as retirees) to be floating in any balmy ocean off any sun baked coast of your choice? I've been a bit of a serial migrant and can already feel the soft trade wind in martinique waking me up soon after early retirement.
I had 9 years roaming but based in South of, France... Was great but best place I enjoy ::sailing is Fraisthorpe, mountain biking Lady Bower and now with 4 grandkids Filey is way better than Jamaica or South of France.
Most folk reckoned in Village I sort of retired to (Laroque Des Alberes, France and Billy's, Bay Jamaica) ) that 9 years is about average for expats. It was great, glad we went but not missing it..
They don't show all downsides on post cards... Getting robbed twice in Northern Spain and getting chased by a crocodile on beach in Jamaica adds a whole new dimension to balmy sea breezes.
 

Woosh

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May 19, 2012
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Pandemic aside, why are all of you still on soggy isle if you're free (as retirees)
we want to see our grand children grow and also to be near our aged Mum so we are stuck.
I do miss travelling though. My favourite country is Australia.
 

jonathan.agnew

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Dec 27, 2018
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I had 9 years roaming but based in South of, France... Was great but best place I enjoy ::sailing is Fraisthorpe, mountain biking Lady Bower and now with 4 grandkids Filey is way better than Jamaica or South of France.
Most folk reckoned in Village I sort of retired to (Laroque Des Alberes, France and Billy's, Bay Jamaica) ) that 9 years is about average for expats. It was great, glad we went but not missing it..
They don't show all downsides on post cards... Getting robbed twice in Northern Spain and getting chased by a crocodile on beach in Jamaica adds a whole new dimension to balmy sea breezes.
Yes theres rough and smooth everywhere, here too of course (maybe I've had one too many consecutive English winter in a london - I dare anyone to take the 530 am tube in crammed with modern slaves and claim to be happy). And the carribean can be dodgy, but beautiful in ways that make time stop (perhaps I need another nine year expat fix)
 

jonathan.agnew

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Dec 27, 2018
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we want to see our grand children grow and also to be near our aged Mum so we are stuck.
I do miss travelling though. My favourite country is Australia.
Yes there is that (though my family can do with some separation I feel), australia is great
 
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oldgroaner

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Nov 15, 2015
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The Telegraph is rewriting History again to stop further lockdowns

Quarter of Covid deaths not caused by virus, new figures show Calls to speed up roadmap as data records people dying 'with' disease rather than 'from it

This was likely true of the Black Death too

Gerald Bell@GOldcodger

Replying to
@brexit_sham
So only a quarter died of Covid, did they? Amazing how it escapes them that either this is not true. or the Wurzel Gummidge look alike PM wrecked the economy on purpose to cover up the Brexit disaster. Take your pick, it must be one or the other!
 
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oyster

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Nov 7, 2017
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The Telegraph is rewriting History again to stop further lockdowns

Quarter of Covid deaths not caused by virus, new figures show Calls to speed up roadmap as data records people dying 'with' disease rather than 'from it

This was likely true of the Black Death too

Gerald Bell@GOldcodger

Replying to
@brexit_sham
So only a quarter died of Covid, did they? Amazing how it escapes them that either this is not true. or the Wurzel Gummidge look alike PM wrecked the economy on purpose to cover up the Brexit disaster. Take your pick, it must be one or the other!
Umm, am I missing your point? Doesn't it mean three-quarters did die of Covid - rather than a quarter?
 
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oyster

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I see the UK is expanding mixed vaccine trails - recruiting for (AZ or Pfizer + Moderna) and (AZ or Pfizer + Novavax). (Centres are too far away for me to volunteer.)

While Germany is switching all under-50s who have had only one AZ vaccination to a second of Pfizer or Moderna. Without trials having been completed that show equivalent (or better) protection.

And China is trialling the mixing of Sinovac and Pfizer.
 
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oldgroaner

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Nov 15, 2015
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Umm, am I missing your point? Doesn't it mean three-quarters did die of Covid - rather than a quarter?
There's always some party pooper comes along ...
No it's this keebord again, it doesn't agree with what I'm trying to say, or even saying what I'm trying to mean, it you follow my drift.

Do not adjust your reality
Normality is cancelled permanently in Brexit Britain
I've just joined everyone else in not knowing what the heck I'm talking about. :cool:
 
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oyster

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I see the UK is expanding mixed vaccine trails - recruiting for (AZ or Pfizer + Moderna) and (AZ or Pfizer + Novavax). (Centres are too far away for me to volunteer.)

While Germany is switching all under-50s who have had only one AZ vaccination to a second of Pfizer or Moderna. Without trials having been completed that show equivalent (or better) protection.

And China is trialling the mixing of Sinovac and Pfizer.
My colleague Sarah Marsh has a fuller report on the UK study into mixing Covid vaccines between jabs being expanded. Particularly worth noting are the words of Professor Jeremy Brown, a member of the UK’s Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation.

He has told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme this morning that people will eventually “have to” mix Covid-19 jabs.

It’s practically going to have to be that way because, once you’ve completed a course of, say, the Moderna or Pfizer or the AstraZeneca with two doses, in the future it’s going to be quite difficult to guarantee you get the same type of vaccine again.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2021/apr/14/coronavirus-live-news-india-posts-record-new-cases-germany-wont-give-second-astrazeneca-dose-to-under-60s

Given that some considerable time ago, they were referring to an updated AZ vaccine being used as a booster from September (or thereabouts), we can imagine that current AZ would then not be available. So even keeping to one company's product, we could and probably will end up mixing actual vaccines!
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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The Telegraph is rewriting History again to stop further lockdowns

Quarter of Covid deaths not caused by virus, new figures show Calls to speed up roadmap as data records people dying 'with' disease rather than 'from it

This was likely true of the Black Death too

Gerald Bell@GOldcodger

Replying to
@brexit_sham
So only a quarter died of Covid, did they? Amazing how it escapes them that either this is not true. or the Wurzel Gummidge look alike PM wrecked the economy on purpose to cover up the Brexit disaster. Take your pick, it must be one or the other!
As Oyster says, you've misread, the Telegraph only claim a quarter of the deaths were not due to Covid.

I've a lot of sympathy with that view, as I've long posted, the Covid death figures are greatly exaggerated. That's in part by the very silly 28 day ruling, in part by the sheer convenience of blaming Covid when the cause of death is uncertain as it so often is.

France has long had a similar problem. To allow for uncertain cause of death, their doctors are allowed to enter "Sudden death" as the cause. As a result and unsurprisingly, some 40% of their deaths are registered as "Sudden death".

Such convenient cop-outs always distort reporting.
.
 

oyster

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Nov 7, 2017
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As Oyster says, you've misread, the Telegraph only claim a quarter of the deaths were not due to Covid.

I've a lot of sympathy with that view, as I've long posted, the Covid death figures are greatly exaggerated. That's in part by the very silly 28 day ruling, in part by the sheer convenience of blaming Covid when the cause of death is uncertain as it so often is.

France has long had a similar problem. To allow for uncertain cause of death, their doctors are allowed to enter "Sudden death" as the cause. As a result and unsurprisingly, some 40% of their death s are registered as "Sudden death".

Such convenient cop-outs always distort reporting.
.
The 28 day rule is nonsense. But we also run the risk of missing those who die later - of whom there appear to be quite a number.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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The 28 day rule is nonsense. But we also run the risk of missing those who die later - of whom there appear to be quite a number.
I think that's difficult to say, especially when so many of them are elderly and in the age region of likelyhood of death before long anyway.

The sheer convenience of putting death down to Covid is I'm sure the big distorter as that 40% French example shows. When that was briefly studied by a group of our doctors and French ones, it was found that the majority of those "Sudden deaths" were in fact due to heart attacks.
.
 
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sjpt

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Jun 8, 2018
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I understand there were big distortions both ways in the US. Some states had extra funds that meant you could gain financially by putting Covid on the certificate. Other states were Covid deniers and made it very difficult to name Covid.
 

oyster

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Nov 7, 2017
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Looks like vaccine passports will inevitably come to pass.

Denmark has announced that they will allow easier travel/visiting for those who have been vaccinated. Limited, for now to Schengen and neighbours. But as more countries decide that is an option for them so there will be more pressure to have a vaccine passport mechanism in place. And once there, little will stop more and more people and organisations demanding sight of them.

The alternative, not having any system, might result in much restriction on UK citizens travelling abroad.

Far from having control - we will be forced into this by the combined power of every other country in the world.


Just adding: There is talk of care home workers being compelled to be vaccinated. As we have discussed already, we currently have no formal mechanism for proof to be made available.
 
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oyster

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Nov 7, 2017
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Amsterdam courts still impact UK cases. Indeed, the majority of the case is based on what happened in the UK.

Uber fired drivers automatically for alleged misconduct - sharing their app.

A certain neat symmetry that Uber are now whinging about the court case being an automatic judgement.



Court tells Uber to reinstate five UK drivers sacked by automated process
Ruling in Amsterdam overturns company’s decision to exclude operators for alleged sharing of account details

An Uber spokesperson said: “Uber only became aware of this default judgment last week, due to representatives for the ADCU not following proper legal procedure. With no knowledge of the case, the court handed down a default judgment in our absence, which was automatic and not considered.”
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/apr/14/court-tells-uber-to-reinstate-five-uk-drivers-sacked-by-automated-process
 
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oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
7,823
11,576
West West Wales
Looks like vaccine passports will inevitably come to pass.

Denmark has announced that they will allow easier travel/visiting for those who have been vaccinated. Limited, for now to Schengen and neighbours. But as more countries decide that is an option for them so there will be more pressure to have a vaccine passport mechanism in place. And once there, little will stop more and more people and organisations demanding sight of them.

The alternative, not having any system, might result in much restriction on UK citizens travelling abroad.

Far from having control - we will be forced into this by the combined power of every other country in the world.


Just adding: There is talk of care home workers being compelled to be vaccinated. As we have discussed already, we currently have no formal mechanism for proof to be made available.
Further:

An NHS trust in England is planning to make Covid-19 vaccinations part of staff contracts, it has been reported. A letter from the Chelsea and Westminster Hospital Foundation Trust in London that is set to go out to staff is said to state: “We will be making Covid vaccination mandatory for all our employees and it will form part of the employment contract.”

Without an agreed mechanism for proving vaccination, how will they manage to enforce that?
 
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