Brexit, for once some facts.
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Or:An Ideal Christmas gift for the Brexiteer, or indeed Tory you know
Doesn't it just stink?
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Clearly you haven't been to Yorkshire!
The population up on windy ridge only come out to mate when the sun shines thus the population is in decline, further exacerbated by the local dialect being mostly old Norse spoken in a high wind, which limits romantic encounters.
When I saw Boris dressed up as a policeman somehow it reminded me some characters I have visited up there.
In 1945 the Vietnamese under Ho Chi Min planned on independance as Japanese left. (after surrendering post Hiroshima)you should do a fact check on your version of events.
the Geneva 1954 Conference formed the basis of settlements in French Indochina.
The South Vietnam government were since totally under American control because France did not have the money to compete with the USA for influence in its former colonies.
The USA saw Vietnam as strategically important, not only because it was rumoured to have large oil deposits off its coasts but also because it borders China.
The partition of Vietnam along the 17th parallel into North and South was meant to be temporary, initially for 6 months to maximum 2 years.
Successive US presidents, Eisenhower, JFK, JBL and Richard Nixon continued to stop any effort of re-unification between North and South, thus the USA caused the war.
1954 Geneva Conference - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
The Japanese completely vacated Saigon. The Vietnamese actually copied the American constitution with guarantees of democracy.
The French had been kicked out by the Japanese in 1942.
On Japanese surrender the French thought it OK to retake Saigon so did so, starting the French/Vietnamese war. Being so out gunned the Vietnamese opted for guerilla style warfare. Yes, your 1954 rationale is correct but the Americans were simply following on from the French.
And it is often cited the French corrupted much information in an attempt to Foster the continuation of a war they had now left. Ho Chi Min expressed more than interest in wanting a system not based China but on the US itself. This was denied by the French. One of the saddest aspects of that entire conflict was Vietnam did not want either help from communists or to be communist. Between the French and the US unfortunately they were forced that way.
There is no way on earth the French can look back at that entire episode and not see themselves as at least (if not mostly) responsible. Their behaviour as seeing Vietnam as a source of wealth in 1945 and in their cynical approach at restablishing colonialisation in 1945 was in fact dispicable, especially so at a time when so many had died stopping countries doing exactly that.
You check your facts Woosh.
Good green news! Around 31% of our electricity is coming from wind generation.
https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
Yet we still have almost a gigawatt coming from coal.
https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
Yet we still have almost a gigawatt coming from coal.
As the new nuclear and more wind turbines come on stream we'll be able to stop burning coal. Hopefully stop burning woodchip too.
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JA is chopping down a couple of Gigawatts of wood for his burner...
He's cleared an area size of Wales in last month... Or was that Bolsonaro in Brazil..
Well crikey, yes, but I'm not replanting vast acres of forum space with detailed analyses of the pre-colonial history of indochina (or interrogating boris' decision to have Christmas parties). What happened to your sermon to us all on remaining relevant?
Wasn't me that one Gov.. I, ve done my fair share of preaching, stony ground obviously, but me telling folk to stay relevant. Don't think so..
That would be like you telling folk to be pleasant. Go on, try it.
BTW, being pedantic.. It wasn't precolonial.. That was the problem. France wanted Vietnam as a Colony.. That means they had a colonial war in 1945 to reinvade a country. You, d have to go way way back for pre colonial...
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You've got your facts wrong again.
The Japanese occupation of Vietnam did not happen or was rather a non-event.
France did not pull out of Indochina, the 1940 agreement allowed some 6,000 Japanese troops to station there, that number later was increased to 40,000. That was all. The Japanese never replaced the French local authorities. Japanese troops stayed in Vietnam from 22 September 1940 to March 1945.
France did not start pulling out until it lost at Dien Bien Phu in May 1954.
Japanese invasion of French Indochina - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
We'll still be burning stuff to generate though, in our rapidly expanding network of waste to power stations
Information Link
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You've got your facts wrong again.
The Japanese occupation of Vietnam did not happen or was rather a non-event.
France did not pull out of Indochina, the 1940 agreement allowed some 6,000 Japanese troops to station there, that number later was increased to 40,000. That was all. The Japanese never replaced the French local authorities. Japanese troops stayed in Vietnam from 22 September 1940 to March 1945.
France did not start pulling out until it lost at Dien Bien Phu in May 1954.
Japanese invasion of French Indochina - Wikipedia
Notice, the French needed our help to reinvade Vietnam. Simple fact is France with our unedifying help restarted the colonial attitudes of Wealthy countries exploiting weaker ones, even after fighting 2 World War pretending to be against such behaviour.
The US were dragged into conflict in their obsession to fight progression of communism. France was there purely for profit.
Unbelievable when that very clamour for help from communists was driven by French and to a lesser extent our(UK) Colonial desires.
Are you actually trying to tell us France did not repossess Vietnam in 1945/46...You are deluded if you think so. They did. Its a fact.
And, it was not at the request of Ho Chi at all. And at time Vietnam was not communist and had no plans of being so. (Ho Chi Min had only recently been released from Chinese prison)
Please tell us all, what on earth was France (or UK, who to be fair were coerced into helping France) doing near Vietnam in 1945.???Hadnt they got things at home to sort.?
They had Colonial desires, they wanted to exploit Vietnam and those actions directly led to the Vietnamese war for independance. Its irrefutable, irrespective of what, where or how many Japanese were or were not there.
Those actions by France and UK pushed Vietnam towards Russia and China for help. Without the reinvasion of Vietnam in 1945/6..Vietnam would have been Independant and in all likely hood United and a democracy. Its absolutely ridiculous to claim French had no part in starting Vietnam war.
It's more or less accepted that without those early attempts to colonise Vietnam in 1945 the Vietnam war would never have happened. US didn't want any part in occupying or profiting from Vietnam. They simply didnt want a growing communist field of influence. Without French/UK involvement between 1945 and 1954 there would have been no growing communist threat. Europeans, and specifically French, pushed Vietnam that way. Giving US justification, wrongly ofcourse, but that's another argument.
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Just when you were beginning to make sense!. No the French did not create Vietnam, it was a very old established country back into antiquity. The French did colonise a slab of it as French Indo China back in the days of empire. Remember the French were the real rivals to British Colonial ambitions globally for 2 hundred years. The WW2 destabilised everything, and the Japanese were in that part of the world. The mistake the French made was assuming that after WW2 things would revert to their normal, and they could continue to get their Rubber for Michelin and coffee from there. But the age of Empire was over. Freedom movements were building up everywhere ,and the European powers , including the UK were bankrupt.
Very very normal, and highly desirable. There are still ongoing studies in every medicine known to man. Why do you think Aspirin, the oldest of the synthetic drugs, got a new lease of life as a coronary artery protective, about two decades ago, except on the basis of long term longitudinal studies
What a relief!You've got your facts wrong again.
The Japanese occupation of Vietnam did not happen or was rather a non-event.
France did not pull out of Indochina, the 1940 agreement allowed some 6,000 Japanese troops to station there, that number later was increased to 40,000. That was all. The Japanese never replaced the French local authorities. Japanese troops stayed in Vietnam from 22 September 1940 to March 1945.
France did not start pulling out until it lost at Dien Bien Phu in May 1954.
Japanese invasion of French Indochina - Wikipedia
Agreed, just as the French tried to hang onto their North African empire. And we didn't need much coercion since we too tried to hang onto Empire as our actions in Aden and Cyprus showed.
That hanging onto empire by both France and Britain resulted in unnecessary wars.
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