Brexit, for once some facts.

oyster

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Nov 7, 2017
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Last time I had a corner shop was 68 years ago, 1954 in Bournemouth.

I don't eat jellied eels and I leave gherkins for big macs, so those who pay for slices of them can have the pleasure of fishing them out and leaving them on the pavements.
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Am happy to eat eels - but stewed, please, rather than jellied. (So long as someone else has got rid of the bone/cartilage.)

Prefer cornichons to gherkins - mainly for texture.
 
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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I also don’t understand why some need to constantly remind people that they are gay.
It's because discrimination is still so widespread, often overt and suffered. The reminder is a protest.

If and when all in society fully accept all forms of gender identity, they'll no longer feel any need to declare theirs.
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Woosh

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It doesn't matter who is our Prime Minister, our national failure goes far, far beyond the present incumbent.

He is only a microcosm of who we have become.
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it does because rich or poor, we all pay for his core policy mistakes.
 
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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it does because rich or poor, we all pay for his core policy mistakes.
They just add to the failure and can often be self cancelling when we are in the sort of mess we are in today.

For example, we are broke and seriously in debt so can't spend our way out of problems, but the problems we have cannot be solved without spending huge amounts.

So either of the above choices fails, just as a half baked compromise will too.

That's why I say it doesn't matter who, we've run out of promising options for anyone to implement.

Our future is rough regardless.
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Woosh

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They just add to the failure and can often be self cancelling when we are in the sort of mess we are in today.

For example, we are broke and seriously in debt so can't spend our way out of problems, but the problems we have cannot be solved without spending huge amounts.

So either of the above choices fails, just as a half baked compromise will too.

That's why I say it doesn't matter who, we've run out of promising options for anyone to implement.

Our future is rough regardless.
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BJ is incompetent in delivering what he promises. He let Hancock and Sunak waste hundreds of billions that we don't have and now the future generations will have to pay it back one way or another. It's time tory MPs let him go.
 
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tillson

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May 29, 2008
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BJ is incompetent in delivering what he promises. He let Hancock and Sunak waste hundreds of billions that we don't have and now the future generations will have to pay it back one way or another. It's time tory MPs let him go.
I disagree. It’s essential that he wins and remains in place. A win will embolden him and he will behave in an even more debauched and depraved manner, thus ensuring this clown show is destroyed for at least 10 years. If he loses, he will be replaced with another incompetent clown and they may limp on through the next GE. Johnson will guarantee defeat.

I think about 110 will vote to do the right thing and get rid of the lawbreaking liar. The rest are spineless and stand for absolutely nothing. There is enough of the latter to secure Johnson’s place as PM.
 
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flecc

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BJ is incompetent in delivering what he promises. He let Hancock and Sunak waste hundreds of billions that we don't have and now the future generations will have to pay it back one way or another. It's time tory MPs let him go.
From my personal point of view, I agree, but it would be a Tory mistake.

There's two years before the next general election, that's two years for a successor to fail to improve things from our present impecunious position.

Better for them that Johnson continues to take the blame for another year to 18 months, leaving a new boy fresh and unblemished for the election.
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Woosh

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From my personal point of view, I agree, but it would be a Tory mistake.

There's two years before the next general election, that's two years for a successor to fail to improve things from our present impecunious position.

Better for them that Johnson continues to take the blame for another year to 18 months, leaving a new boy fresh and unblemished for the election.
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The polls give Labour 20 points ahead in the by-election in Wakefield. BJ is severely damaged and no longer an electoral asset. BJ employs 150 MPs in his government, so he only needs 30 backbenchers to 'win' this vote but the fact that roughly 40% tory MPs want him to go, the party is clearly divided and must give itself sufficient time to re-unite, he won't have much time left regardless of the outcome of today's vote.
The sooner he goes the better it is for his party.
 

oyster

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Nov 7, 2017
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Boris Johnson wins confidence vote by 211 votes to 148
Sir Graham Brady, chair of the Conservative 1922 Committee, says 359 votes were cast. There were no spoilt ballots.

Confidence in Boris Johnson: 211

No confidence in Johnson: 148

That means more than 40% of Tory MPs voted against Johnson.
 
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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Boris Johnson wins confidence vote by 211 votes to 148
Sir Graham Brady, chair of the Conservative 1922 Committee, says 359 votes were cast. There were no spoilt ballots.

Confidence in Boris Johnson: 211

No confidence in Johnson: 148

That means more than 40% of Tory MPs voted against Johnson.
He needed 180 to survive, he got 211 so is clear of any immediate danger.

He can opt to stay and probably will.
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Woosh

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Mid term it's meaningless, it's normally when all oppositions do far better. Even LibDems win by elections.
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not by the same margin though.
It's clear that BJ can't really call a GE right away.
Labour will say that the conservative party is split in the middle and the electorate won't like split parties.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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Labour will say that the conservative party is split in the middle and the electorate won't like split parties.
Pot calling the kettle black !

I still say Johnson hanging on for at least a year is best for the Tories. If he goes now he'll just be making way for another failure to impress the electorate over the next two years. Best for them that he takes all the blame.
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Woosh

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Pot calling the kettle black !

I still say Johnson hanging on for at least a year is best for the Tories.
we'll see if he lasts until 2023
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
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Has anyone found a reasonably comprehensive list of how MPs voted?

I'm particularly interested in South Wales, and can see reports of Simon Hart (no surprise - has confidence) but few others.
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
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Has anyone found a reasonably comprehensive list of how MPs voted?

I'm particularly interested in South Wales, and can see reports of Simon Hart (no surprise - has confidence) but few others.
the vote was supposedly secret, unless the MPs want to make their vote known.
Raab was on TV this morning. When asked why he said about TM that her position was untenable after she won her vote of no confidence, he said that she had a minority government. So the current crew can carry on like they've been behaving until the next GE. The answer for those MPs who voted no confidence in BJ should be to vote down some of the upcoming laws.
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,135
14,225
West West Wales
the vote was supposedly secret, unless the MPs want to make their vote known.
True - but a process of open declarations of how they voted, and applied statistics/logic, should produce a list with some certaints and quite a lot of very likelies (whichever way) - with further revision as more information drips out.
 

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