Brexit, for once some facts.

jonathan.agnew

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jonathan.agnew

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why?
it's the same withdrawal deal that any UK PM will have to agree to, the EU may give a little ground to sweeten it but there won't be any change on the money or backstop.
why would any uk pm have to agree to a withdrawal deal? I wont get into the semantics of the small majority, advisory referendum etc etc. But - by analogy - if your wife says, lets have a suicide pact instead of a divorce and your daughter agrees with her would you say "well yes that makes sense then" or would you say "f%$£ off, you're mad". Brexit is a suicide pact between the disengaged disenfranchised and ultra right wing tory nut jobs/hedge funds. I feel as inclined to honour the referendum on it as I do to take the advice of the homeless psychotic down the road on what i should do with my life who, bless his soul, incidentally had the same right to vote on brexit than me.
 

oyster

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It's good to be sceptical, and there's misinformation on both sides, but PwC (who are obsessively, amorally and exclusively interested in what they can make out of any situation) are amongst many investors who say so
http://www.cbi.org.uk/news/leaving-eu-would-cause-a-serious-shock-to-uk-economy-new-pwc-analysis/
Even were there to be long-term benefit (and I feel that is very unlikely), the actual process of leaving will cause a shock. You just have to look at the uncertainty involved which simply will not, cannot, be resolved in the short term.
 

Woosh

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why would any uk pm have to agree to a withdrawal deal? .
that's their job, to deal with consequences of international treaties that we signed and make sure that brexit is orderly.
 

Woosh

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But - by analogy - if your wife says, lets have a suicide pact instead of a divorce and your daughter agrees with her would you say "well yes that makes sense then" or would you say "f%$£ off, you're mad". Brexit is a suicide pact between the disengaged disenfranchised and ultra right wing tory nut jobs/hedge funds.
it's nothing like a suicide pack.
It's a choice that many Britons want to make, the referendum is just one moment in time, it could have been next year instead of 2016.
Of course the UK can rejoin the EU in time when opinion changes again.
 

tillson

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Yes, the lesser of 3 evils. Corbyn would do far more danage to econony then Brexit ever could and his defence policy is a complete and utter shambles.... errr. Keep Trident replacement at billions and billions but tell whole world he would never ever use it...now that is stupidity at its utmost. But that is Corbyn's way. Sit on fence. May on the other hand has gone up in my estimations. From utterly useless to best of a bad lot.
Labour is an unthinkable prospect. An MP convicted of preventing the course of justice, another employing a convicted drug dealer and also a proven liar, millionaires masquerading as ordinary people’s representatives, hell bent on emptying the pockets of working people and filling those of wasters. Just a snap-shot of Labour.

It makes May almost acceptable. A bit like a choice between eating excrement or drinking cold sick.
 
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tillson

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a WTO terms exit may seem worse, in reality it will cause such mayhem that leavers will clamour to rejoin fully in short shrift, whereas May's deal smacks of death by a thousand cuts
And I think wind up toy nations such as Ireland and the majority of the other 27 will be wanting us back. These countries “dance a fancy jig” in return for the coins that the EU throw into their collection baskets. They are, to a significant extent, reliant on the positive monetary contributions that the U.K. makes. They don't like to admit it, but in reality, many of the EU 27 nations are nothing.

For instance, Malta? Mr Muscat, who incidentally I thought was Deputy Dawg's sidekick until the EU elevated him to a false high. A fraud telling the UK how it's going to be. Please, for goodness sake.

Anyhow, there won’t be as many coins to go around if Brexit is too hard, and Germany won’t want to fill the void because their economy will take a hit and money will be tighter for them too. They will not want to be rogered from both ends, so something will need to give.

These charity case nations, which make up the overwhelming majority of EU countries, will need to find a new mechanism of whoring for EU money. They need us, we need them and despite all the BS and the Guardian / Daily Mail terrifying headlines, a workable solution will happen. Whether that’s quick and official or a gradual softening of stance over time is the only unknown, but not much will change.
 
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Fingers

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why would any uk pm have to agree to a withdrawal deal? I wont get into the semantics of the small majority, advisory referendum etc etc. But - by analogy - if your wife says, lets have a suicide pact instead of a divorce and your daughter agrees with her would you say "well yes that makes sense then" or would you say "f%$£ off, you're mad". Brexit is a suicide pact between the disengaged disenfranchised and ultra right wing tory nut jobs/hedge funds. I feel as inclined to honour the referendum on it as I do to take the advice of the homeless psychotic down the road on what i should do with my life who, bless his soul, incidentally had the same right to vote on brexit than me.

That's your opinion. It doesn't make it correct.

Quite frankly if you marry a woman like that and father a child like that then I would rather take the advice of the homeless psychotic down the road.

At least we can medicate him as he accepts he has a condition.

You're in denial.
 
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jonathan.agnew

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Dec 27, 2018
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And I think wind up toy nations such as Ireland and the majority of the other 27 will be wanting us back. These countries “dance a fancy jig” in return for the coins that the EU throw into their collection baskets. They are, to a significant extent, reliant on the positive monetary contributions that the U.K. makes. They don't like to admit it, but in reality, many of the EU 27 nations are nothing.

For instance, Malta? Mr Muscat, who incidentally I thought was Deputy Dawg's sidekick until the EU elevated him to a false high. A fraud telling the UK how it's going to be. Please, for goodness sake.

Anyhow, there won’t be as many coins to go around if Brexit is too hard, and Germany won’t want to fill the void because their economy will take a hit and money will be tighter for them too. They will not want to be rogered from both ends, so something will need to give.

These charity case nations, which make up the overwhelming majority of EU countries, will need to find a new mechanism of whoring for EU money. They need us, we need them and despite all the BS and the Guardian / Daily Mail terrifying headlines, a workable solution will happen. Whether that’s quick and official or a gradual softening of stance over time is the only unknown, but not much will change.
You have, to state the obvious, a very bleak view of the EU (whoring nations dancing for coins). Much of the consumer and employee protection regulation on this little thatcherite coal mine of a country of ours wouldn't have happened without it. Nor euro tunnel or concord or our current car industry and a host of other good stuff. How about not using a matrix of nations and instead focusing on what's good for you, your family culturally, environmentally,existentially? I cannot believe you can possibly look at May, Reese mogg and the other manically self obsessed that constitute the UK "government" without realising it promises something much darker than malta
 

jonathan.agnew

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Dec 27, 2018
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That's your opinion. It doesn't make it correct.

Quite frankly if you marry a woman like that and father a child like that then I would rather take the advice of the homeless psychotic down the road.

At least we can medicate him as he accepts he has a condition.

You're in denial.
Well, I have to tell you, since I woke up to the fact that I share a country with 17million voters who look at Boris or Farage and see our next leaders, I feel very much as if I have been on a national level coerced into an arranged marriage with decidedly demented others
 

Fingers

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Well, I have to tell you, since I woke up to the fact that I share a country with 17million voters who look at Boris or Farage and see our next leaders, I feel very much as if I have been on a national level coerced into an arranged marriage with decidedly demented others

A lot of people think the next person are more mad than they are.

It's quite a common trait in folk who feel anxious all the time.
 
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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One director is French.

But it appears that no-one in the industry seems to believe they could be up and running from Ramsgate by 29/03/2019. No ships. Difficult/restricted port. Website shows they are not even advertising for staff. I saw one possible ship mentioned - launched 1987 which is getting rather long in the tooth. And you need more than one bateau to sail three sailings each way every day.

Adding link:

No-deal Brexit ferry company owns no ships and has never run Channel service
Concerns raised over Seaborne Freight, which won a £13.8m contract to operate a Ramsgate to Ostend route


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/30/no-deal-brexit-ferry-company-owns-no-ships-and-has-never-run-ferry-service
Yes, I'd heard all this information before it was posted here. But it still could be a shell to cover any continental company shipping between any two ports, Ramsgate just being a nominal company base. Those continentals, the Dutch especially, already have ships.

In addition to the two legitimate shippers awarded the contracts, this could just be extra capacity insurance and £14 millions is peanuts in government expenditure terms.
.
 
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tillson

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You have, to state the obvious, a very bleak view of the EU (whoring nations dancing for coins). Much of the consumer and employee protection regulation on this little thatcherite coal mine of a country of ours wouldn't have happened without it. Nor euro tunnel or concord or our current car industry and a host of other good stuff. How about not using a matrix of nations and instead focusing on what's good for you, your family culturally, environmentally,existentially? I cannot believe you can possibly look at May, Reese mogg and the other manically self obsessed that constitute the UK "government" without realising it promises something much darker than malta
Much of it we wrote in the first place, particularly human rights legislation.

I can empathise with Your views of Jacob Rees Mogg. His desire to throttle back the free money fountains and to ask those capable of working, to work, doesn’t go down well with our current crop of “socialists”.
 
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flecc

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Much of it we wrote in the first place, particularly human rights legislation.
And then refused to put it into law until the EU adopted it and made it mandatory!

And how does this fit with Leavers claiming we have no influence in the EU when we have written laws which they adopt unchanged?

Both these statements expose who the villains are, it's the UK and its deceitful Leavers.
.
 

tillson

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May 29, 2008
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And then refused to put it into law until the EU adopted it and made it mandatory!

And how does this fit with Leavers claiming we have no influence in the EU when we have written laws which they adopt unchanged?

Both these statements expose who the villains are, it's the UK and its deceitful Leavers.
.
The U.K. is one of the most compliant nations within the EU, with others being fined heavily for not adopting legislation.
 
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flecc

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The U.K. is one of the most compliant nations within the EU, with others being fined heavily for not adopting legislation.
This reply has no relevance to my post about who was to blame for the quoted instances.

And the UK is also guilty of not adopting legislation. For examples, a whole raft of EU measures applicable to Northern Ireland going back decades, and in the remainder of the UK in addition the two and three wheeled motor vehicle type approval law not complied with for 12 years, and the pedelecs exemption law changes also for 12 years.
.
 

Fingers

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This reply has no relevance to my post about who was to blame for the quoted instances.

And the UK is also guilty of not adopting legislation. For examples, a whole raft of EU measures applicable to Northern Ireland going back decades, and in the remainder of the UK in addition the two and three wheeled motor vehicle type approval law not complied with for 12 years, and the pedelecs exemption law changes also for 12 years.
.

It's irrelevant now though isn't it.
 

Danidl

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The U.K. is one of the most compliant nations within the EU, with others being fined heavily for not adopting legislation.
Someone, sometime published a table on this forum of all the derogations and exemptions the uk had obtained,so no it is not the most compliant nation state. Not by a long shot.
Again your understanding is less than perfect. In general the EU proposes regulations, the member states AGREE to adopt them,or they DISAGREE to adopt them for their state. If they agree, then they can be fined for not adopting them by a due date,or by flaunting them having adopted them. I f one has opted to back out of that regulation,then compliance is irrelevant.
 

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