Brexit, for once some facts.

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
19,407
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Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
Its just to get the EU to think we're serious about a WTO exit.

Should have really been doing this from start tbh
Nobody really believes in no deal. It's just a propaganda tool to stiffen the resolve of brexiters.
Even JRM is willing to pay half the estimated bill.
if TM was serious about preparing for no deal, part of Kent along the M20 would have been concreted by now.
What the hard brexiters really want is no transition, no anti tax-avoidance directive written into our finance laws and no customs union so T&L won't have to pay tariffs of €339 per ton on raw cane sugar for refining and €419 per ton on white sugar
 
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Nev

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 1, 2018
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I am starting to wonder that perhaps the May deal is the least worst option Parliament needs to take. I voted remain and really wish we had won the referendum, if we had then there would be far less division in the Country and we would be better off by tens perhaps even hundreds of Billions of pounds.

But we are were we are, I thought another referendum might be the answer but I now have doubts about this. Not as many leavers have switched over to remain as I though would once things became clearer about what leaving the EU actually meant. Most polls seem to indicate very few people have changed their minds. Now if there was something like a 65 or 70% majority wanting to remain then I would think differently, but the figures are nothing like that.

I read a book a while back written by a journalist it was all about Brexit and the leave and remain campaigns. The leavers fought a far better campaign than the remainers and who is to say they would not do the same again. There are several prominent people who lots of people have heard of who could front the leave campaign, there aren't that many that could front the remain campaign. Also what would happen if remain won by say 52 to 48%, you can be certain there would be a huge clamour for another vote.

The fact that Mays deal pleases no one and is in many ways the worst of all worlds might actually be the only thing that has any kind of chance of bringing the Country together again. Bearing in mind that unless legislation is passed we leave on WTO terms at the end of March. I don't think leaving on these terms will be as bad as some people are saying but I think there will be quite a lot of initial disruption and probably a run on the pound. Also long term I think we will be a poorer Country in all kinds of ways not just financial by leaving on WTO terms, so if the HoC chooses Mays deal they at least get rid of the risk of a hard Brexit.

Finally I have seen people argue on these pages and elsewhere that many older leave voters would now have passed away and most new young voters would vote remain, this is probably true, but would those young voters bother voting? Also as mentioned previously, the leave campaign could easily fight another excellent campaign and could easily win again, possibly with an even bigger majority. This would almost certainly mean leaving on WTO terms, and would provide ammunition to the Alt Right of the Country who have definitely become more prominent since leave won and the advent of Trump and other Populist leaders around the world.
 
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Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
19,407
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The fact that Mays deal pleases no one and is in many ways the worst of all worlds might actually be the only thing that has any kind of chance of bringing the Country together again.
you seem to justify JC's stance.
the best for the country is for TM and JC to make a deal. In return for JC supporting her deal, we''ll get fresh GE after brexit.
Corbyn needs to win about 20-25 more seats from the conservatives.
 
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tommie

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Mar 13, 2013
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Woosh

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May 19, 2012
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So nobody believes in a No Deal....... Really??!

Lets see then...


https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions
what is the percentage of signatories against the 17.4 millions who voted for leave last time? 1.6%.
The percentage of those petitioners equals to 0.4% of those elligible to vote.
and you forgot the popular demonstrations for remain.
 
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Fingers

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 9, 2016
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No. Which part of EU does not care about this posturing is difficult to understand. 90% of the organisation has made a proposal to 10%. The 10% can accept or reject it, . It will marginally damage the 90% if it is rejected. It will seriously damage the 10%.
The world and the EU will move on.
What I do agree with is that the UK should have been doing this contingency planning three years ago and had the compulory purchase orders set up before triggering Article 50. Not to bluff the EU, but because its what adults do. It is also what in the days of empire, the British were very good at doing.

The British are very good at a lot of things.

A stiff upper lip will see us through this situation.

Everything will be fine long term. There will be a jolt at first but we will get through it.

I hope Leo is planning hard too.
 
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Wicky

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Feb 12, 2014
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This would almost certainly mean leaving on WTO terms, and would provide ammunition to the Alt Right of the Country who have definitely become more prominent since leave won and the advent of Trump and other Populist leaders around the world.
Trump doesnt fancy May's deal and instead favours a hard brexit so we're away from the EU herd and rich for picking off. And as a cherry on top he wants to come back for a State visit in May to lord over us.

Brexit: US ambassador to UK Johnson warns on trade deal

Donald Trump's offer of a "quick, massive, bilateral trade deal" will not be possible if Theresa May's EU withdrawal agreement is approved, the US ambassador to the UK has warned.
 
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Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
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The British are very good at a lot of things.

A stiff upper lip will see us through this situation.

Everything will be fine long term. There will be a jolt at first but we will get through it.

I hope Leo is planning hard too.
Actually Leo and Michail, leader of thr opposition are planning. They are agreeing the timetable
for the next three months for any legalisation which can be deferred so that emergency Brexit related matters can be dealt with. It is called cooperation,and it is how adults deal with problems.
 
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Fingers

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 9, 2016
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Actually Leo and Michail, leader of thr opposition are planning. They are agreeing the timetable
for the next three months for any legalisation which can be deferred so that emergency Brexit related matters can be dealt with. It is called cooperation,and it is how adults deal with problems.

They have no choice really.
 

jonathan.agnew

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 27, 2018
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The British are very good at a lot of things.

A stiff upper lip will see us through this situation.

Everything will be fine long term. There will be a jolt at first but we will get through it.

I hope Leo is planning hard too.
This has to be tongue in cheek? "stiff upper lip" (have you been binge watching dam busters again?); "very good at a lot of things"(prevarication; snatching failure from the jaws of success?)
 
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Fingers

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 9, 2016
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This has to be tongue in cheek? "stiff upper lip" (have you been binge watching dam busters again?); "very good at a lot of things"(prevarication; snatching failure from the jaws of success?)

It's always worked out fine in the past. Don't see this being any different.

A lot of people getting their knickers in a twist for no good reason in my book.

People love a drama and other folk love misery. Look at our Irish chum on here and Groaner. They are only happy when others are sad.

It's going to be fine. Nothing much will change short term.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,766
30,351
I am starting to wonder that perhaps the May deal is the least worst option Parliament needs to take. I voted remain and really wish we had won the referendum, if we had then there would be far less division in the Country and we would be better off by tens perhaps even hundreds of Billions of pounds.

But we are were we are, I thought another referendum might be the answer but I now have doubts about this. Not as many leavers have switched over to remain as I though would once things became clearer about what leaving the EU actually meant. Most polls seem to indicate very few people have changed their minds. Now if there was something like a 65 or 70% majority wanting to remain then I would think differently, but the figures are nothing like that.

I read a book a while back written by a journalist it was all about Brexit and the leave and remain campaigns. The leavers fought a far better campaign than the remainers and who is to say they would not do the same again. There are several prominent people who lots of people have heard of who could front the leave campaign, there aren't that many that could front the remain campaign. Also what would happen if remain won by say 52 to 48%, you can be certain there would be a huge clamour for another vote.

The fact that Mays deal pleases no one and is in many ways the worst of all worlds might actually be the only thing that has any kind of chance of bringing the Country together again. Bearing in mind that unless legislation is passed we leave on WTO terms at the end of March. I don't think leaving on these terms will be as bad as some people are saying but I think there will be quite a lot of initial disruption and probably a run on the pound. Also long term I think we will be a poorer Country in all kinds of ways not just financial by leaving on WTO terms, so if the HoC chooses Mays deal they at least get rid of the risk of a hard Brexit.

Finally I have seen people argue on these pages and elsewhere that many older leave voters would now have passed away and most new young voters would vote remain, this is probably true, but would those young voters bother voting? Also as mentioned previously, the leave campaign could easily fight another excellent campaign and could easily win again, possibly with an even bigger majority. This would almost certainly mean leaving on WTO terms, and would provide ammunition to the Alt Right of the Country who have definitely become more prominent since leave won and the advent of Trump and other Populist leaders around the world.
The one key thing you omitted was the far greater determination of Remainers to vote this time. So many, including the politicians and even Boris Johnson, believed Remain would win last time, that it bred complacency among Remainers who often didn't bother to vote. The Leavers were far more determined, hence they won.

The Remainers won't make that mistake again if given a second chance. Also many Leavers are dispirited by the outcome of their win, not a proper leave deal in their view, so many of them might not turn out again to vote.

The whole country could be surprised by the size of the Remain winning margin. I believe it would be decisive.
.
 
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tillson

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 29, 2008
5,249
3,197
I'm afraid we do deserve them. After all, the leaders are all elected by us as MPs, so as an electorate we only have ourselves to blame in the first instance.
That's not quite true. The candidates we vote for are sometimes selected from shortlists drawn up of entirely one gender or ethnic background. This is done in order to satisfy someone who doesn't matter, but the process has the unfortunate affect of producing Dianne Abbots.
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,457
32,608
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Someone, sometime published a table on this forum of all the derogations and exemptions the uk had obtained,so no it is not the most compliant nation state. Not by a long shot.
Again your understanding is less than perfect. In general the EU proposes regulations, the member states AGREE to adopt them,or they DISAGREE to adopt them for their state. If they agree, then they can be fined for not adopting them by a due date,or by flaunting them having adopted them. I f one has opted to back out of that regulation,then compliance is irrelevant.
That would be me, I shall attempt to find it, although to be honest presenting facts to Brexit supporters is always a waste of time.
 
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