Brompton Sparticle with latest Suzhou Bafang motor (8-Fun)

[daniel.weck]

Hello all, just wanted to let you know that the Electric Transport Shop (ETS) is expecting new kit units from China at the end of September, for their Sparticle kit with the latest Suzhou Bafang (8-Fun) motor (side cable entry instead of spindle).

It will be the 24V SWXK model, but apparently it will explicitly support small 16" wheels (this was confirmed to me by another source as well). Note: on the current data sheets from 8-Fun for the Q/SWXK model, the minimum wheel size is 26" (see various attached images below).

I assume that the motors will therefore "natively" deliver higher RPM to reach 25 km/h, and hopefully the torque won't suffer too much.

I know (from someone else's experience) that the 24V 200W motor for 26" wheels (235 RPM no load) can be "overclocked" safely at 36V (battery + controller), with some minor slipping issues with the freewheel (manageable, if rider is careful with power/torque delivery...oh, and it is possible to swap one nylon gear with a steel one, which apparently reduces risks of damage). This results in 370 RPM no-load, 25 km/h on the flat without pedaling drawing 15 A, and 17.5 A when accelerating uphill.

I am however looking forward to hearing about the new motor's "native" support for higher RPM, as feeding 36V to the 24V motor invalidates the warranty.

E-bike motor(SWXK) Manufacturer exporting direct from Jiangsu China

 

[daniel.weck]

 

[daniel.weck]

Some cut-away diagrams here (large pictures):

http://www.szbaf.com/images/1-2.jpg

http://www.szbaf.com/images/3-4.jpg

http://www.szbaf.com/images/5-6.jpg

 

[flecc]

So the side entry model is only a 3 wire motor, not an 8 wire one.

This normally means no power from a standstill, making it necessary to pedal off the mark to about 2/3 mph to
start the motor. If so that's a big departure for SB.

Tongxin on their main Nano motor version have an EMF feedback system to enable standing starts with their three wire motor, but those starts are snatchy affairs as the feedback is read by the controller
and interpreted, and they've had plenty of controller problems.
.

 

[daniel.weck]

It will be the 24V SWXK model, but apparently it will explicitly support small 16" wheels (this was confirmed to me by another source as well). Note: on the current data sheets from 8-Fun for the Q/SWXK model, the minimum wheel size is 26" (see various attached images below).

I assume that the motors will therefore "natively" deliver higher RPM to reach 25 km/h, and hopefully the torque won't suffer too much.

Well, from a different source, I now have confirmation that a 36V 250W 255rpm model is available, so this suits the 20" and 16" wheels pretty well.

/Daniel

 

[RobinC]

When I was last in ETS in Cambridge they were trying one of the 80mm dropout spacing Tongxins, but I think they preferred the extra oomph from the other motor they were trying, possibly a Bafang. The narrow Tongxin has a wavy shaped profile between the flanges so is easy to tell apart.

Robin

 

[daniel.weck]

Interesting view of the Suzhou Bafang 8-Fun Q/SWXK (100mm), showing how tight the fit is depending on the fork dropout dimensions:

 

[Straylight]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it seems as though they've missed a trick as the version for rear wheel use still appears to have a spindle entry cable, and so is still only freewheel rather than cassette compatible I suppose they thought that the ability to use disc brakes was more important (what with them being very 'en vogue' right now), as having the cable appearing on the other side of the motor would have prevented this.

See what I mean?

 

[daniel.weck]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it seems as though they've missed a trick as the version for rear wheel use still appears to have a spindle entry cable, and so is still only freewheel rather than cassette compatible I suppose they thought that the ability to use disc brakes was more important (what with them being very 'en vogue' right now), as having the cable appearing on the other side of the motor would have prevented this.

See what I mean?

SWXH:

BPM:

 

[daniel.weck]

 

[Straylight]

Thanks for illustrating my point

 

[georgesign]

Brompton Sparticle kit

I have just fitted the Fun 8 Sparticle kit and would like to give you my thoughts so far and ask for your opinion. The kit I received was a 24V kit but the motor had 36V stamped on it. When I queried this they said it factory used a 36V casing because they had run out of 24V. The throttle would stay on full power even when the twist grip sprang back to it's original start position. The only way to stop this is to blip the throttle. I now find that the wire from the motor has twisted around the fork/axle and some of the wire insulation has come away because the motor twists. If you tighten the wheel nuts strongly to stop this then there is no freewheel. So far a very disappointing kit. It seems that these kits are not properly tested before being sent out. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[AndyOfTheSouth]

Hi - The Electric Transport Shop incompetently supplied and fitted a 24v kit twice for me. On both occasions this resulted in a damaged motor (the spindle rotated within the fork and damaged wiring). The first time it wrecked the front fork as well. The matter was only resolved when I threatened to take them to court and the credit card company (who were legally liable also) intervened and refunded me what I had paid.

Your best course of action is to take the kit back straightaway and buy elsewhere.

 

[jerrysimon]

I tend to agree in that I would take it back and speak to them.

On my Alien kit (pre fun model) I was worried the throttle might stick though it seemed fine. I decided to fit one of the brakes (that kills the power) anyway just for piece of mind.

I also fitted a home made torque bar to be safe in terms of the wheel spindle turning in the forks lugs.

Jerry

 

[daniel.weck]

Damn ! The mislabeling of the motor voltage is bad enough, but the controller hiccups and the bad fork assembly (i.e. torque arm) is terrible news ! Do you have a Brompton or a full-size bike ?

As planned, I will be particularly careful regarding my motor+fork+torque-arm assembly, as this is the known point for catastrophic failure. Warranty being an issue when sourcing parts from outside the UK, I have even more incentive to be extremely cautious with fitting !

 

[jerrysimon]

I just checked the retailer which has a branch local to me in Cambridge. Those kits/conversions aint cheap either

Regards

Jerry

 

[daniel.weck]

I just checked the retailer which has a branch local to me in Cambridge. Those kits/conversions aint cheap either

Exactly. The only incentive (other than lack of DIY skills) to go for a local (UK-based) kit supplier is after-sales service and warranty (i.e. "peace of mind").

But for this kind of price-point I would also expect top-notch pre-sales testing and QA...

 

[AndyOfTheSouth]

One very specific question: did the kit include a torque washer or torque arm?

These are small components which stop the spindle rotating within the fork. In both cases, there is a hole which the spindle fits exactly. In the case of the torque washer, a flange fits into the fork drop outs to lock the washer in place. The torque arm is held externally to the fork to prevent it moving.

If neither of these were included with proper instructions on their use, the sort of damage you describe is not surprising.

 

[georgesign]

Brompton Sparticle

The Electric Transport Co. quote:- "We have committed ourselves to this industry and our customers by reinvested business profits in ways that support your needs and choice". I am about to see if this is true. The kit is expensive and by the time they sent it to me in France it cost £900. I am waiting for their reply about the latest incident of the motor twisting. So far I have a 24V motor in a 36V casing (can this be true?) and a throttle that can't make up its mind to turn-off (which is obviously dangerous). Plus the motor twisting in the forks and damaging the wiring. I have telephoned my credit card company and they are sending me a dispute form just in case I receive no joy from the Electric Transport Company. I should think that receiving a motor that is wrongly labelled would be cause for an instant refund. Has anyone any thoughts on this. Help!

 

[georgesign]

Brompton Sparticle

Reply to "Andy of the South"
I have just looked at the motor and there is no hole on either side for any spindle plus there wasn't a torque arm and obviously no instructions. Actually some of the fitting instructions were for a slightly different set-up. So this must have been a more recent kit than the instruction booklet.