The hole to which I referred would be in a torque washer. Was there a specially shaped washer as part of the kit?
Brompton Sparticle with latest Suzhou Bafang motor (8-Fun)
- Thread starter daniel.weck
- Start date
The torque washer (different from a torque arm though both serve the same purpose) is clearly visable on the pictures on their web site here Check the last two photos.
Though I suppose it depends if you got the basic wheel kit or the one that comes with the after fit Brompton forks ?
Anyway best contact them and see what they say.
As an asside a guy introduced himself on the site the other week and gave this link to a possible alternative.
Freedom E-Bikes - Home
Might be worth reading the thread here and contacting him later if you choose not to go back to the Electric Transport Shop.
Regards
Jerry
Though I suppose it depends if you got the basic wheel kit or the one that comes with the after fit Brompton forks ?
Anyway best contact them and see what they say.
As an asside a guy introduced himself on the site the other week and gave this link to a possible alternative.
Freedom E-Bikes - Home
Might be worth reading the thread here and contacting him later if you choose not to go back to the Electric Transport Shop.
Regards
Jerry
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The default torque washer for the Bafang may not suit all types of fork dropouts, see these photos (it's the thick matte beveled ring, not the thin shiny washer):
http://daniel.weck.free.fr/BromptonBafangTongxin/IMG_3824.jpg
http://daniel.weck.free.fr/BromptonBafangTongxin/IMG_3820.jpg
http://daniel.weck.free.fr/BromptonBafangTongxin/IMG_3818.jpg
http://daniel.weck.free.fr/BromptonBafangTongxin/IMG_3824.jpg
http://daniel.weck.free.fr/BromptonBafangTongxin/IMG_3820.jpg
http://daniel.weck.free.fr/BromptonBafangTongxin/IMG_3818.jpg
Daniel interesting.
My Bafang Alien kit never came with a torque washer.
It seemed fine in my steel forks and for a 250W motor I am not sure if one is needed. That said I fitted my own DIY torque arm for piece of mind
Regards
Jerry
My Bafang Alien kit never came with a torque washer.
It seemed fine in my steel forks and for a 250W motor I am not sure if one is needed. That said I fitted my own DIY torque arm for piece of mind
Regards
Jerry
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_kMaEcapvrbo/Sc1IhtWjGWI/AAAAAAAAAmY/acFYHfnIAtw/s320/No+Torque+Arms.jpg
Or this:
Even torque arms can suffer from high torque:
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Yes I have seen a few pictures and read some horror stories hence why I fitted one
Not worth the risk of ruining the motor wiring.
Regards
Jerry
Not worth the risk of ruining the motor wiring.
Regards
Jerry
Brompton Sparticle
Thank you all for your replies. Just a little point. It is all well and good (when you are an expert) mentioning the fitting of torque arms etc but for the new customer I would have thought that these kits would have been thoroughly tested and all your practical knowledge would have been taken on-board by the people selling these kits. There are no instructions whatsoever regarding the fitting of the motor wheel. It looks as though the customer is supposed to be a test bed. As a newcomer to Electric Bikes I now have second thoughts as reliability and ease of use. The glowing advertisements certainly do not live up to the practical experience.
Thank you all for your replies. Just a little point. It is all well and good (when you are an expert) mentioning the fitting of torque arms etc but for the new customer I would have thought that these kits would have been thoroughly tested and all your practical knowledge would have been taken on-board by the people selling these kits. There are no instructions whatsoever regarding the fitting of the motor wheel. It looks as though the customer is supposed to be a test bed. As a newcomer to Electric Bikes I now have second thoughts as reliability and ease of use. The glowing advertisements certainly do not live up to the practical experience.
That's very fair. When you buy something you expect it to work - we were wondering whether the kit was fit for its purpose.
Presumably you will contact the Electric Transport Shop and see how they respond to your request. Please let us know what they say.
Good luck!
Presumably you will contact the Electric Transport Shop and see how they respond to your request. Please let us know what they say.
Good luck!
Georgesign,
Please do not think we were infering that you should know about torque arms. When I purchased my kit I fitted it without even knowing what a torque arm was!
Like you I had no torque arm/washer supplied. It was only reading on here that I then found out and made one.
If it is likely that the wheel would slip in the brompton forks then I would have thought the supplier would have warned you.
As I said contact them. Hopefully they will be helpfull. I think you have a good case for a replacement at the minimum or a full refund.
I have to say in my case ebikes have lived up to my expectations and I am completely hooked.
PS Daniel I still think in the extreme cases where even a torque washer/arm is used and fail the motors being used are the higher 500 or 1000 watt motors. But as I said I would still fit one either way.
Regards
Jerry
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In our defence...
Firstly, I would like to point out that (Andy) "Andyofthesouth" had a different motor in his earlier version of the kit. His kit was initally fitted by us and unfortunately despite a proper fitment it turned out that his front forks were too weak to deal with the torq and consequently broke. This was not due to incorrect fitment. "Andy" then moved the kit onto a new bike but there were evidently electrical and mechanical problems all due to to incorrect fitment... We refitted his kit free of charge... At this point the wiring had all been interfered with and we had to spend hours putting new controller pigtail connectors as every one of them had been hacked off... His kit was subsequently properly fitted with all the correct torque washers etc and fully tested and 100% working. "Andy" then took the machine to another bike shop and asked them to provide a statement citing incompetent workmanship and a poor quality product. Said bike shop did not agree, refused to write a statement, and made a point of getting in touch with us to let us know what had happened.
Next - I have replied to Doug by email, but as he has decided to pursue this in public, here is our reply so those that wish to may judge for themselves:
1) There is a cruise function in the controller. If you hold the throttle fully open for 8 secs it will keep going until the throttle is blipped again. This is normal.
2) We believe the motor you received was one of several with the incorrect markings on the casing. However if you prefer, we are willing to replace the motor with one that is correctly marked as they should shortly be available.
3) The motor should not destroy its cabling if fitted correctly. The Torque washer, which I know was supplied with your kit, should stop the axle rotating. However this quote from your last email causes me concern: "Unfortunately to stop the centre of the hub (with wire entry) from moving you must tighten the nuts so hard that there is no freewheel. Is this a design fault?. "
And suggests that the wheel nuts have not been adequately tightened. Using the correct washers in the right combination is critical, to provide torque resistance for the axle as well as allowing freewheeling of the hub - both are essential for a proper fitment. For these reasons we usually prefer to fit the conversions in-house.
We are very keen to resolve this and find out why you are having a problem. We can either help you to correct the fitment by checking/advising on what you have done so far, or if you wish to get the entire bike to us we will correctly fit the kit for you and return it.
It sounds like the washers were not fitted correctly around the motor into the forks. This is necessary to ensure non-rotation of the axle and freewheeling of the hub. If there is any rubbing of the motor in the forks then there is going to be a problem sooner rather than later. If the Torque washers are not in place then the axle will rotate. I believe the instructions do show the correct the fitment of the motor, and indeed the motor in this case was fitted in a set of Brompton forks to the customer, so that there would not be any confusion about how the motor should be fitted.....
In any case we are not wishing to leave any of our customers high and dry and will do whatever we reasonably can to resolve the situation.
Firstly, I would like to point out that (Andy) "Andyofthesouth" had a different motor in his earlier version of the kit. His kit was initally fitted by us and unfortunately despite a proper fitment it turned out that his front forks were too weak to deal with the torq and consequently broke. This was not due to incorrect fitment. "Andy" then moved the kit onto a new bike but there were evidently electrical and mechanical problems all due to to incorrect fitment... We refitted his kit free of charge... At this point the wiring had all been interfered with and we had to spend hours putting new controller pigtail connectors as every one of them had been hacked off... His kit was subsequently properly fitted with all the correct torque washers etc and fully tested and 100% working. "Andy" then took the machine to another bike shop and asked them to provide a statement citing incompetent workmanship and a poor quality product. Said bike shop did not agree, refused to write a statement, and made a point of getting in touch with us to let us know what had happened.
Next - I have replied to Doug by email, but as he has decided to pursue this in public, here is our reply so those that wish to may judge for themselves:
1) There is a cruise function in the controller. If you hold the throttle fully open for 8 secs it will keep going until the throttle is blipped again. This is normal.
2) We believe the motor you received was one of several with the incorrect markings on the casing. However if you prefer, we are willing to replace the motor with one that is correctly marked as they should shortly be available.
3) The motor should not destroy its cabling if fitted correctly. The Torque washer, which I know was supplied with your kit, should stop the axle rotating. However this quote from your last email causes me concern: "Unfortunately to stop the centre of the hub (with wire entry) from moving you must tighten the nuts so hard that there is no freewheel. Is this a design fault?. "
And suggests that the wheel nuts have not been adequately tightened. Using the correct washers in the right combination is critical, to provide torque resistance for the axle as well as allowing freewheeling of the hub - both are essential for a proper fitment. For these reasons we usually prefer to fit the conversions in-house.
We are very keen to resolve this and find out why you are having a problem. We can either help you to correct the fitment by checking/advising on what you have done so far, or if you wish to get the entire bike to us we will correctly fit the kit for you and return it.
It sounds like the washers were not fitted correctly around the motor into the forks. This is necessary to ensure non-rotation of the axle and freewheeling of the hub. If there is any rubbing of the motor in the forks then there is going to be a problem sooner rather than later. If the Torque washers are not in place then the axle will rotate. I believe the instructions do show the correct the fitment of the motor, and indeed the motor in this case was fitted in a set of Brompton forks to the customer, so that there would not be any confusion about how the motor should be fitted.....
In any case we are not wishing to leave any of our customers high and dry and will do whatever we reasonably can to resolve the situation.
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Well, hello. Jamie (Jimblob). That post contains outrageous errors. As you know, the credit card company took a rather different view of the evidence and chose to reimburse me rather than risk going to court.
The Electric Transport Shop does itself no favours by this disgraceful misrepresentation.
The Electric Transport Shop does itself no favours by this disgraceful misrepresentation.
Brompton Sparticle
Dear Jamie McAlley
Thank you for your reply. Firstly there are no instructions whatsoever regarding the fitting of the motor wheel or the washers. As the wheel was already fitted in the forks how am I to know if it is fitted correctly? You fitted it. You also state that the forks should be removed as per the Brompton Manual (there are no instructions in the Brompton manual for removing the forks so after contacting Eddie he sent them to me separately). Your instruction book under point 5 says remove the LEFT handlebar grip and slide the throttle on and tighten when the throttle is supposed to be on the right. Living in France and dealing with UK company can be a problem so I specifically came to you because of your statement in your advert that you have the customer needs at heart. I wanted a tried and tested kit from experienced people but what I got was far from this. The instructions were totally lacking. As for the throttle having a "cruise control" why didn't anyone mention this when I telephoned your shop and before I nearly hit a car. It seems a rather dangerous idea. I was even asked to send the throttle and the controller back by Eddie as there must be a fault with it. Confidence in a product especially when it is going to be used on the road is essential and I must say my confidence has evaporated. As a 67 year old I do not feel confident in taking your product out onto the road as I do not know what is going to happen next. I do not wish to be a test rider for your company. As for sending bits and pieces back or even the whole bike I have to remind you that it cost me £80 just for you to send it to me. As for conducting this in public I originally wanted other expert opinions and was shocked to read what was posted so obviously I was curious to know more about the problems that could be encountered. You have chosen to be defensive so I have no option but to post my reply to you. Obviously I would like to feel happy about the final outcome. I am not a winging customer who finds fault with every little problem. If my questions had been answered promptly then I would never have investigated the problems through the Pedelec Forum. I was originally going to buy a complete electric bike from a local French company but your glowing advert regarding the Brompton kit swayed me as I already had a Brompton plus it was a cheaper option. I'm sure that the Pedelec community must now be gripped by this and will obviously look for the next instalment. Now why not see how you can retrieve the situation and be a star on the Pedelec Forum. Over to you.
Regards Doug George (georgesign)
Dear Jamie McAlley
Thank you for your reply. Firstly there are no instructions whatsoever regarding the fitting of the motor wheel or the washers. As the wheel was already fitted in the forks how am I to know if it is fitted correctly? You fitted it. You also state that the forks should be removed as per the Brompton Manual (there are no instructions in the Brompton manual for removing the forks so after contacting Eddie he sent them to me separately). Your instruction book under point 5 says remove the LEFT handlebar grip and slide the throttle on and tighten when the throttle is supposed to be on the right. Living in France and dealing with UK company can be a problem so I specifically came to you because of your statement in your advert that you have the customer needs at heart. I wanted a tried and tested kit from experienced people but what I got was far from this. The instructions were totally lacking. As for the throttle having a "cruise control" why didn't anyone mention this when I telephoned your shop and before I nearly hit a car. It seems a rather dangerous idea. I was even asked to send the throttle and the controller back by Eddie as there must be a fault with it. Confidence in a product especially when it is going to be used on the road is essential and I must say my confidence has evaporated. As a 67 year old I do not feel confident in taking your product out onto the road as I do not know what is going to happen next. I do not wish to be a test rider for your company. As for sending bits and pieces back or even the whole bike I have to remind you that it cost me £80 just for you to send it to me. As for conducting this in public I originally wanted other expert opinions and was shocked to read what was posted so obviously I was curious to know more about the problems that could be encountered. You have chosen to be defensive so I have no option but to post my reply to you. Obviously I would like to feel happy about the final outcome. I am not a winging customer who finds fault with every little problem. If my questions had been answered promptly then I would never have investigated the problems through the Pedelec Forum. I was originally going to buy a complete electric bike from a local French company but your glowing advert regarding the Brompton kit swayed me as I already had a Brompton plus it was a cheaper option. I'm sure that the Pedelec community must now be gripped by this and will obviously look for the next instalment. Now why not see how you can retrieve the situation and be a star on the Pedelec Forum. Over to you.
Regards Doug George (georgesign)
Ok its probably none of my business and I should not get involved but hey as its in a public forum I will
I would suggest the best way forward would be for the both of you to get on the phone and talk to each other.
Regards
Jerry
I would suggest the best way forward would be for the both of you to get on the phone and talk to each other.
Regards
Jerry
Couldn't agree more!Ok its probably none of my business and I should not get involved but hey as its in a public forum I will
I would suggest the best way forward would be for the both of you to get on the phone and talk to each other.
Regards
Jerry
I do feel that it is not really appropriate to continue this discussion in public now, but will attempt to resolve this situation directly with the customer.
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