Buying spare batteries
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eZee battery prices are quite low by some standards at221, for example Giant charge £250 for the old Twist 24 volt battery, and £300 each for those on the new model. At £170 (NiMh) and £250 (Li-ion), and both 36 volt with one and half times the content, eZee's aren't bad at all.
If you buy a spare battery for occasional use, definitely don't by a spare Li-ion as they lose life whether used or not, a function of the way they work chemically. NiMh don't lose life at anything like the same pace when not used, but both types should be recharged every three months at least to keep them active.
I use more than one battery for extra range, and also for flexibility between the two eZee bikes I have. They are a Li-ion and an NiMh.
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If you buy a spare battery for occasional use, definitely don't by a spare Li-ion as they lose life whether used or not, a function of the way they work chemically. NiMh don't lose life at anything like the same pace when not used, but both types should be recharged every three months at least to keep them active.
I use more than one battery for extra range, and also for flexibility between the two eZee bikes I have. They are a Li-ion and an NiMh.
.
Ezee Batteries - NiMh no longer available
I see that NiMh batteries are available for Quando and Sprint Models. Can one be obtained for a Torq? Are not the fittings (interface) the same for all three bikes
and they have replied:
We no longer supply any bikes with the Nimh batteries and will be addressing all areas on the website soon that mention Nimh.
But in answer to your question all of our bikes will take the Nimh or Lithium options.
I have enquired of 50 Cycles whether there are NiMh batteries available for the Torq:
I see that NiMh batteries are available for Quando and Sprint Models. Can one be obtained for a Torq? Are not the fittings (interface) the same for all three bikes
and they have replied:
We no longer supply any bikes with the Nimh batteries and will be addressing all areas on the website soon that mention Nimh.
But in answer to your question all of our bikes will take the Nimh or Lithium options.
I have been considering an extra battery but, being a little aware of the difference between the Lithium and the other one, thought the answer would be to have a system whereby each battery is regularly used, i.e swap them over either daily, or weekly, this way each battery will be charged and used regularly. Of course, it would mean they would both wear out around the same time !
Is this a good idea ?? and if not, why not.
Jeanette
Is this a good idea ?? and if not, why not.
Jeanette
Always consider carefully whether you really need a second battery, particularly if either or both are Li-ion Jeanette.
That's because Li-ion ages anyway whether used or not, so two will age to the same decay state at the same speed as one. Obviously buying one after the other has reached end of life will be more economical.
NiMh don't age like that, but they must be charged regularly, preferably at least every three months, so again there's some aging even when not being used.
However, if you need two like me to avoid delay while your only one is still charging, then rotation as you've said is best.
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That's because Li-ion ages anyway whether used or not, so two will age to the same decay state at the same speed as one. Obviously buying one after the other has reached end of life will be more economical.
NiMh don't age like that, but they must be charged regularly, preferably at least every three months, so again there's some aging even when not being used.
However, if you need two like me to avoid delay while your only one is still charging, then rotation as you've said is best.
.
I totally agree with Flecc's advice on batteries which exactly reflects my experience of Li-ion batteries in laptops, phones & camcorders, they seem to lose about 25% of their capacity per year regardless of the number of charge cycles, not a big issue on a phone or computer, but on a bike you can't stop halfway to plug in.
The Sprint I recently restored had a Li-ion battery that was totally expired when I acquired it, the previous owner had used it daily for just over a year and estimated it had done 5000 miles, I refurbished the battery with a set of NiMh cells I already had, but the life of the original battery was disappointing.
The reply that ITSPETEINIT received from 50cycles about the enquiry for a NiMh battery is interesting as I received the following reply from a similar enquiry 1 month ago. "yes, it's the same battery and works very well with the Torq and you're welcome to purchase online or by dropping into our Loughborough warehouse."
I subsequently called in and purchased an additional NiMh battery for my Torq for £170 (Which also fits my Sprint).
If 50cycles are no longer going to supply NiMh batteries then I will replace the cells in my existing batteries when the time comes, at present the cost is similar to the £170 I just paid, but that would buy 11Ah cells - 20% more capacity than those fitted as standard.
I'm not a great fan of Li-ion batteries due to their high cost, rapid loss of capacity and complex charger requirements and would much prefer to stick with NiMh especially as capacities seem to just get larger.
Anyone purchasing additional or replacement batteries should be aware that the chargers for Li-ion and NiMh batteries are not the same.
Ian.
The Sprint I recently restored had a Li-ion battery that was totally expired when I acquired it, the previous owner had used it daily for just over a year and estimated it had done 5000 miles, I refurbished the battery with a set of NiMh cells I already had, but the life of the original battery was disappointing.
The reply that ITSPETEINIT received from 50cycles about the enquiry for a NiMh battery is interesting as I received the following reply from a similar enquiry 1 month ago. "yes, it's the same battery and works very well with the Torq and you're welcome to purchase online or by dropping into our Loughborough warehouse."
I subsequently called in and purchased an additional NiMh battery for my Torq for £170 (Which also fits my Sprint).
If 50cycles are no longer going to supply NiMh batteries then I will replace the cells in my existing batteries when the time comes, at present the cost is similar to the £170 I just paid, but that would buy 11Ah cells - 20% more capacity than those fitted as standard.
I'm not a great fan of Li-ion batteries due to their high cost, rapid loss of capacity and complex charger requirements and would much prefer to stick with NiMh especially as capacities seem to just get larger.
Anyone purchasing additional or replacement batteries should be aware that the chargers for Li-ion and NiMh batteries are not the same.
Ian.
The problem with NiMh for the eZee bikes is one of a huge increase in manufacturing costs Ian, likely to affect everyone shortly. There's a world shortage of nickel with world stock on March 19th dropping to less than one day of world demand. As a result the price has rocketed, and apparently manufacturers of batteries have asked for cash up front to produce cells. The NiMh cells prices from US major supplier Batteryspace have rocketed for D cells, virtually doubled now.
Opinions on how long this will last vary, and mines are frantically upping output to cash in on present prices, but it could be some while before things are back to normal.
Like you, I'm an avowed NiMh fan, they do the job, more than can be said for some newer types. Interesting that you intend to recell a Li-ion to NiMh as I intend to do the same in due course. I already do this for the my Twist bike. If you need to know the correct type of thermistor for the eZee NiMh, I know the correct type and source for them.
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Opinions on how long this will last vary, and mines are frantically upping output to cash in on present prices, but it could be some while before things are back to normal.
Like you, I'm an avowed NiMh fan, they do the job, more than can be said for some newer types. Interesting that you intend to recell a Li-ion to NiMh as I intend to do the same in due course. I already do this for the my Twist bike. If you need to know the correct type of thermistor for the eZee NiMh, I know the correct type and source for them.
.
Thanks Flecc for the interesting and somewhat worrying info about NiMh prices, it does explain why prices are going up while most manufactured goods are getting cheaper.
I have already re-celled the dud Li-ion battery with NiMh cells which were salvaged from my first bike, a synergie elite, they are probably cheap cells as everything else on that bike was. The thermistor came from the same source and appeared to have a similar resistance to that in an ezee battery over a wide range of ambient temperatures. I had to add an extra cell as the synergie bike had 29 cells instead of 30, yet another example of the bikes cheapness. I know its not a good idea to mix cells but the extra cell is of a higher capacity than the rest so should not suffer reverse charging itself and its effect on the other 29 should be negligible.
The hardest part was squeezing the cells in the casing with adequate pressure on the ends to ensure good contact, and providing adequate heat resisting insulation between them. Being well aware of the probable effect of a short between 2 adjacent fully charged cells I took great care here. There is only just enough space in the casing for the cells leaving minimal space for any means to hold them, I clamped the 6 sticks of 5 cells between 2 pieces of thick fibreglass printed circuit board with brass strips soldered on to contact the cells and very long bolts passing through the boards and between the cells to hold it all together.
I now have 3 good batteries between the 2 bikes so hopefully they will last until the Nickel situation stabilises, and maybe by then battery performance will have improved to the point where we can run our bikes on AA cells!
I have already re-celled the dud Li-ion battery with NiMh cells which were salvaged from my first bike, a synergie elite, they are probably cheap cells as everything else on that bike was. The thermistor came from the same source and appeared to have a similar resistance to that in an ezee battery over a wide range of ambient temperatures. I had to add an extra cell as the synergie bike had 29 cells instead of 30, yet another example of the bikes cheapness. I know its not a good idea to mix cells but the extra cell is of a higher capacity than the rest so should not suffer reverse charging itself and its effect on the other 29 should be negligible.
The hardest part was squeezing the cells in the casing with adequate pressure on the ends to ensure good contact, and providing adequate heat resisting insulation between them. Being well aware of the probable effect of a short between 2 adjacent fully charged cells I took great care here. There is only just enough space in the casing for the cells leaving minimal space for any means to hold them, I clamped the 6 sticks of 5 cells between 2 pieces of thick fibreglass printed circuit board with brass strips soldered on to contact the cells and very long bolts passing through the boards and between the cells to hold it all together.
I now have 3 good batteries between the 2 bikes so hopefully they will last until the Nickel situation stabilises, and maybe by then battery performance will have improved to the point where we can run our bikes on AA cells!
That cell problem is a layout thing as you say Ian, the eZee battery being unorthodox.
I think theirs must be tagged cells prejoined, ensuring good contact.
The thermistor is a Semitec AT-4, part number: 103AT4 Shape 2. If not available, 103AT4 Shape 1 will also work. The main specification is R = 10k, B = 3435.
Semitec UK. Phone: 01606 871680, ATC Semitec, NTC Thermistors Speak to them nicely and they'll send you one as a sample, since they don't supply retail.
If there's any problem, a wide tolerance replacement is a Murata component from Radiospares, part number 188-5256, R = 10k, B= 3380
Hopefully this info will makes things easier for you next time.
Your mention of running on AAs prompts me to say the C size cells from Batteryspace are still cheap, and they are now up to 5 Ah, enough to run for quite while and nice and compact too!
I think theirs must be tagged cells prejoined, ensuring good contact.
The thermistor is a Semitec AT-4, part number: 103AT4 Shape 2. If not available, 103AT4 Shape 1 will also work. The main specification is R = 10k, B = 3435.
Semitec UK. Phone: 01606 871680, ATC Semitec, NTC Thermistors Speak to them nicely and they'll send you one as a sample, since they don't supply retail.
If there's any problem, a wide tolerance replacement is a Murata component from Radiospares, part number 188-5256, R = 10k, B= 3380
Hopefully this info will makes things easier for you next time.
Your mention of running on AAs prompts me to say the C size cells from Batteryspace are still cheap, and they are now up to 5 Ah, enough to run for quite while and nice and compact too!
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So, in conclusion, as I understand it,
Lithium batteries deteriorate by the day, but topping up makes no difference to the memory capacity.
NiMh need discharging every so often, so topping up is not advisable every day.
for the sprint you can use both types of battery, BUT if I bought a spare, for extra distance, NiMH battery I would have to buy a charger.
What is the cost of a charger for such a battery? and has anyone ascertained whether, or not, NiMH can be bought from 50 cycles, complete with charger.
I am a little worried my Lithium battery may not last longer than a year, even with low mileage, or have I misunderstood the post by Ian wherein he states he purchased a Sprint with a Lithium battery that was a year old, done c5000 miles, but was dead?
thanks for your replies
Jeanette
Lithium batteries deteriorate by the day, but topping up makes no difference to the memory capacity.
NiMh need discharging every so often, so topping up is not advisable every day.
for the sprint you can use both types of battery, BUT if I bought a spare, for extra distance, NiMH battery I would have to buy a charger.
What is the cost of a charger for such a battery? and has anyone ascertained whether, or not, NiMH can be bought from 50 cycles, complete with charger.
I am a little worried my Lithium battery may not last longer than a year, even with low mileage, or have I misunderstood the post by Ian wherein he states he purchased a Sprint with a Lithium battery that was a year old, done c5000 miles, but was dead?
thanks for your replies
Jeanette
Everything you've written is correct Jeanette.
From 50cycles, an NiMh battery is £170, a charger to suit at £75, or the pair for £230, a £15 discount. I understand the batteeries are not available at present though, for the reasons I mentioned above and beyong the control of eZeebike or 50cycles. With time this situation should correct itself.
As for the Li-ion battery spent at 1 year, that's unusually short and would almost certainly be due to ill advised usage.
Things to avoid with Li-ion are:
1) Running the battery fully out regularly before charging, they are best charged every time they are used, no matter how little.
2) Leaving the battery unused and discharged for any length of time.
3) Storing fully charged at room temperatures when not in regular use for long periods. Long period storage if forced upon one is best at around 40% charge level and as near to zero degrees C as possible. A fridge is ideal for that, and near zero degree storage at that charge level reduces aging to only about 2% a year.
The probability is that the Sprint's battery had been subject to one of the above and had suffered a shortened life as a result. A Li-ion will lose around 30 to 35 % of capacity each year normally, but that still leaves them entirely usable and with full performance, only the range reducing. It should also be realised that all rechargeable batteries lose capacity with age, it's not exclusive to Lithium types, though they do lose at a greater rate. In compensation they deliver a somewhat higher performance in our bikes, in power, speed and range.
.
From 50cycles, an NiMh battery is £170, a charger to suit at £75, or the pair for £230, a £15 discount. I understand the batteeries are not available at present though, for the reasons I mentioned above and beyong the control of eZeebike or 50cycles. With time this situation should correct itself.
As for the Li-ion battery spent at 1 year, that's unusually short and would almost certainly be due to ill advised usage.
Things to avoid with Li-ion are:
1) Running the battery fully out regularly before charging, they are best charged every time they are used, no matter how little.
2) Leaving the battery unused and discharged for any length of time.
3) Storing fully charged at room temperatures when not in regular use for long periods. Long period storage if forced upon one is best at around 40% charge level and as near to zero degrees C as possible. A fridge is ideal for that, and near zero degree storage at that charge level reduces aging to only about 2% a year.
The probability is that the Sprint's battery had been subject to one of the above and had suffered a shortened life as a result. A Li-ion will lose around 30 to 35 % of capacity each year normally, but that still leaves them entirely usable and with full performance, only the range reducing. It should also be realised that all rechargeable batteries lose capacity with age, it's not exclusive to Lithium types, though they do lose at a greater rate. In compensation they deliver a somewhat higher performance in our bikes, in power, speed and range.
.
Hi Jeanette,
the previous owner of the sprint I bought told me he used the bike for a 28 mile commute most days, I think this would have virtually exhausted the battery between charges, just the kind of treatment that Li-ion batteries don't like.
I think that following the advice given by Flecc & 50cycles on battery care should ensure that your Li-ion battery lasts considerably longer than the original one on my sprint.
One thing you don't have to worry about is the overall quality of the bike. in spite of it's hard life and being kept outdoors, a few evenings work brought mine back to as good as new condition. The bike had suffered a premature front rim failure but I now believe that may have been caused by incorrect replacement brake blocks rather than any fault with the bike.
Ian.
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