CARRERA VULCAN E 2017 BOTTOM BRACKET

[Baz the balloon man]

I think the older Carreras are better I was planning to rebuild this , not going to now 20 inch frame , oil brakes .

700C wheels better for the road .

I will try pop down after the weekend with motors and BMS boards too.

 

[daverave]

Hello Baz.....Are the BMS boards coated ??? if so makes things a bit harder to repair !!! i know some people boil in water the pcb's to remove the resin but it can be risky which might damage some components but then again the pcb is useless if it has a fault so i guess there's not much to loose by removing resin by hot water !!! i noticed the bottom bracket on my working vulcan does protrude somewhat....i measured the width and it was 137mm as stated by halfords...im not sure if i can get away with a bottom bracket that is a different width ???

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Dave I have these Two batteries attached.
They are for the Carrera after your model but before the latest ones.

They are both balanced the far one in the picture is outputting 40V at the discharge port and will run a motor using a KT controller but the BMS will not allow it to charge from charging point.
Three lights light up on the on and off switch and the 4th just flashes..

The second one the one with the Suntours controller plugged in is also balanced and gives the 40V only when the charger is plugged in at the discharge port.

I have a third BMS that is doing pretty much the same thing when I swap it onto either battery pack .

So I think the BMS is not allowing the battery to charge and the charger just clicks .

I also have one of these chargers that some ass-w—-propped me off for sent his old one back on e bay before I security marked my stuff .

Do you want to see if you can do anything with these I will drop them down Monday ?

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Ripped not propped lol

 

[daverave]

I once sold a brand new central heating controller on ebay...and the buyer wrote and said the lcd display was not coming on...and he lied and ebay refunded him...when the item was sent back to me it was the buyers old controller and the plastic case was so badly chewed......and it was a different model to what i had sent... i then sent ebay photos of the new controller that i sent him and ebay refunded my money that i lost....are the battery packs 36V ??? if so the the pack should normally read between 36 & 42V

 

[daverave]

do all segments of the battery indicator light up ???

 

[Baz the balloon man]

3 light up top one flashes . Hold the button down 30 seconds or more all light come on .

I just tested the Suntours controller there is voltage the battery is working but it will not charge .

 

[Baz the balloon man]

I have another one with one cell group blown but I have lots of salvaged cells to fix that as well .

 

[Baz the balloon man]

With the charger plugged in there is voltage 42V across the the two terminals on the BMS that are connected to the charging port and the discharge port which are joined .

But the voltage is flickering from 42V then less flicking on and off like an intermittent fault.
And the charger is clicking.

So the charger is delivering voltage but the BMS is not allowing it to charge the battery and the light on the charger is staying green and not going red ..

I just discharged some of the other battery on a motor down to 36V now that also will not charge and is doing the same thing .

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Also tried disconnecting the BMS boards then reconnecting with comms between the controller charger and BMS all being connected..

Any other input at this point would be welcome

 

[daverave]

Have you tested each battery one by one....each battery should be around the same voltage...normally each cell if fully charged should be around 4.2V ....if any of the cells are low then they need to be replaced....but the important thing is that each cell must be around the same voltage....so any cells you replace should be around the same voltage....also if any battery pack is too low due to over discharge then the BMS will not charge the batteries...i would then normally disconnect the BMS and using a bench power supply charge the battery pack direct setting the current limit to around 500 mAH. and power supply voltage set to 42V for a 36V battery pack.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

The battery packs are at 40V volts .
Each cell group was charged up to 4V I did not push them up to 4.5 v as last time or first time I done this I blew a cell group.
I have them mapped out and each cell group is at 4V ie 10X4 =40 v
I have disconnected the BMS re connected and plugged into a controller. So the comms between all three components should be communicating which on one they are as the battery works but it will not charge

At 40V. Across the direct battery terminal’s I would have thought there is enough voltage to wake the BMS without pushing it any further ?

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Forgot you do not need an original Suntours BB as on the Raleigh Array they have the longer silver BB it just does not have those big collars on it they are not needed

 

[daverave]

i normally charge to about 4.2V which amounts to 10 x 4.2V = 42V as the charger output is normally rated at 42V....yes at 40v the BMS should charge the battery !!!! so its looking like the BMS is faulty....i once had a battery pack which i had to charge via my bench power supply bypassing the BMS ....once charged i reconnected the BMS and within just a few days the BMS had discharged the battery pack to 0V...faulty BMS can cause different faults....i think your pro blems are caused by the BMS....i think the companies use such low quality components that fail so quickly so you throw it away and buy another battery...thats the way they do business. i think your BMS boards could maybe be repaired as long that no micro processors are involved. Are the boards coated ????

 

[daverave]

When you say about the collars on the suntour bottom bracket do you mean that plastic rings that cover part of the axle ??? so what axle do you think will do the job ???

 

[Baz the balloon man]

No the metal rings that are not on the silver ones .
I was going to cut them off on my first Vulca to fit a PAS sensor magnet type .
Stuck it on the crank chain wheel in the end .

Look at the BB on the current Raleigh Array E bike , they work with the Suntours Crank which I have on sale on e bay new one .
I did not measure it yet as I just noticed how long they were when I was packing up last night .

Still think you would have more fun doing your own build on your latest Vulcan much better options available ie mid drive motor for instance get away from Suntours.

One of those batteries from yesterday belongs to a customer he bought it secondhand and it looks like someone has been into it in the past.

I have already advised him the battery is probably scrap along with the fact it’s probably 4 years old.

I think I will be doing a build for him when he brings the bike back from France .

Planning to just keep his motor and change everything else then he will get at least a 13AH battery depending on budget it’s just a better way to go than messing about with these old batteries.

I think the reclaimed cells could be put to better use in power tools.

That said out of interest I would still like to see if we can get them working as a lot of people just want to wake them up and use them until the cells degrade as they are a bit suspicious of builds using China components.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

That’s my Array with the longer BB as you can see it has the Crank off a Crossfife so just a different Suntours one that usually works with the Suntours BB PAS sensor all in one .

So you do not need to find an original Vulcan one

 

[daverave]

I know that suntour system is crap...but i just like everything original if possible...also im limited money wise in what i can buy....im not using electric bike every day as i use my Trek non electric bike most of the time....my brother wants my 22" vulcan as its too big for me...so he has bought me two secondhand 18" frames as the first one has been damaged by the courier and also the seller had drilled three holes in the cross bar to fit a battery...im just waiting now for the other frame to come which is completely stripped of any parts..but its in really good condition.
What are those metal rings for on the axles...are they just cosmetic ???also i noticed the bottom bracket should have a metal ring which stops the torque sensor from moving to prevent the cab le from being ripped out.

 

[daverave]

The bottom bracket you said will fit my vulcan...have you listed it yet on ebay ???

 

[saneagle]

I know that suntour system is crap...but i just like everything original if possible...also im limited money wise in what i can buy....im not using electric bike every day as i use my Trek non electric bike most of the time....my brother wants my 22" vulcan as its too big for me...so he has bought me two secondhand 18" frames as the first one has been damaged by the courier and also the seller had drilled three holes in the cross bar to fit a battery...im just waiting now for the other frame to come which is completely stripped of any parts..but its in really good condition.
What are those metal rings for on the axles...are they just cosmetic ???also i noticed the bottom bracket should have a metal ring which stops the torque sensor from moving to prevent the cab le from being ripped out.

His photo shows that he is using a standard Chinese pedal sensor, not the Suntour torque sensor. Some of what's been discussed is a bit mixed up, so be careful. I'm pretty sure that if you want to use the Suntour chainwheel torque sensor, you need the stepped long bottom bracket that you showed.

Personally, I think you're wasting your time building up a bike with the Suntour stuff because there will inevitably be more problems down the road. The Suntour system is not bad when it works, but there's nothing special about it apart from its unreliability.