Trex, VOSA and DVLA are quite clear that there is no requirement to display a numberplate on speed pedelecs in the UK.
Changes to Regulations - Speed pedelecs / dongles / throttles
- Thread starter james@justebikes.co.uk
- Start date
I was looking into e-mopeds. This one folds, has 48V 28AH silicon gel battery, weighs 45kgs, top speed about 35mph, charges up in 2 hours, has 2-speed automatic gearbox, hydraulic brakes, can climb stairs (no need to wait for the lift!) and costs about $1,000 FOB with an EC type approval certificate issued in Malta.
is this the shape of the future?
is this the shape of the future?
then there may be opportunities for someone to bring in high speed electric motocycles, not pedelecs. capable of 50mph+.
like this cheap one:
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Might be worth a try Trex, but key document is a real Certificate of Conformity signed by the CEO of the manufacturer - as far as I know all legit speed pedelecs are shipped with one - you cant register the thing without this.
James
You keep going on about CoCs, no number plate & how easy it is to register an s-pedelec however when Electrfying Cycles challenged you, you went quiet.
Additionally KudosDave & the mighty flecc disagree with you.
Why not restore your credibility by providing the answers on this thread.
You keep going on about CoCs, no number plate & how easy it is to register an s-pedelec however when Electrfying Cycles challenged you, you went quiet.
Additionally KudosDave & the mighty flecc disagree with you.
Why not restore your credibility by providing the answers on this thread.
@ James: I am interested in trying one but not buying one. I remember KD was looking into e-mopeds a few months back and I posted the above in the thread about whether dongles make your bike illegal. I did not take long to find out that e-mopeds sell fairly well in Malta.
With deregulation, if bikes with L1e type approval can be easily registered (I can't see why not, it's easily done in Malta) then e-mopeds may appeal to some.
With deregulation, if bikes with L1e type approval can be easily registered (I can't see why not, it's easily done in Malta) then e-mopeds may appeal to some.
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Only because there is no regulation permitting S class e-bikes in the UK.
Once and if we get a regulation permittig them, there will no doubt be restrictions. They will certainly require insurance which in turn automatically means number plates as a means of control. That is unavoidable.
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I am against the unlimited weights for several reasons..
1. There are a number of e-mopeds currently for sale that the sellers claim only have 200 watt motors and weigh 39 KGs,therefore these are bicycles and qualify as pedelecs. I recognise one of those scooters,it weighs 90 KGs and has an 800 watt motor but the seller claims 200 watts. The police find it very difficult to determine the power of a motor but weight can be easily checked,remove the weight limits and every one of these motorbikes will,with a 200 watt sticker on the motor be bicycle legal,the Dutch have just banned mopeds from cycle tracks,we could be opening the possibility of such machines having access to all our cycle tracks.
2. The 250 watt and 40 kilo limits promotes the design of lighter bikes,I think e-bikes are generally nicer to ride if the weight is down to 20 kilos or less,especially if you want to ride the bike unassisted at times.
So,nice the power is in line with Europe at 250 watts,nice that throttles are to be legal,albeit with type approval complications but I like the 40 kilos weight limit and will write to the D f T accordingly.
Am not against these e-mopeds,I think the bike 'Nicom' is a wonderful little moped,sold under the Sachs name in Germany and should have an easy and inexpensive means of registering/taxing/insuring but they should be motor vehicles not bicycles,road use only.
KudosDave
1. There are a number of e-mopeds currently for sale that the sellers claim only have 200 watt motors and weigh 39 KGs,therefore these are bicycles and qualify as pedelecs. I recognise one of those scooters,it weighs 90 KGs and has an 800 watt motor but the seller claims 200 watts. The police find it very difficult to determine the power of a motor but weight can be easily checked,remove the weight limits and every one of these motorbikes will,with a 200 watt sticker on the motor be bicycle legal,the Dutch have just banned mopeds from cycle tracks,we could be opening the possibility of such machines having access to all our cycle tracks.
2. The 250 watt and 40 kilo limits promotes the design of lighter bikes,I think e-bikes are generally nicer to ride if the weight is down to 20 kilos or less,especially if you want to ride the bike unassisted at times.
So,nice the power is in line with Europe at 250 watts,nice that throttles are to be legal,albeit with type approval complications but I like the 40 kilos weight limit and will write to the D f T accordingly.
Am not against these e-mopeds,I think the bike 'Nicom' is a wonderful little moped,sold under the Sachs name in Germany and should have an easy and inexpensive means of registering/taxing/insuring but they should be motor vehicles not bicycles,road use only.
KudosDave
When writing Dave, can you make clear that you are happy with no weight limit on e-tricycles. I would hate to see a continuation of the very restrictive 60 kilo limit for those, preventing anyone having an e-rickshaw. No country in mainland Europe finds that's necessary.
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I believe that the regulations are relying on everyone obeying the rules by including the provision to fine offenders throughout the entire selling chain, including approval testing providers and also have included the power to revoke type approval if they don't.
Flecc,isn't 60 kilos enough to produce an e-rickshaw?
If not,these would surely be admissible as a commercial product licensed by the the local council,used like a London cab....which has many exemptions to keep it convenient.
When I spoke to Andrew of Oxygen,who manufactures e-rickshaws he said the biggest problem to selling them wasn't technical it was politics by the taxi lobby fighting them being licensed by councils,very successfully keeping them out of most cities.
KudosDave
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But the regs under EAPC should currently stop these motorbikes being allowed as bicycles but the reality is that even now trading standards have no means of determining what is a motorbike and what is a bicycle.
Actually thinking more about my own recent post I cannot see any point of having a class for S Pedelecs. If S Pedelecs have to be registered/taxed/insured/helmet then why not go the whole hog and buy an e-moped. The e-moped is often cheaper,they could have 800 watts not 350 watts,they would have more carrying capacity,they could have better weather protection,they would have more road presence,they could carry a pillion passenger/shopping,integral box for helmet and have a throttle.It is surprising that members on this forum have not looked at the legal e-scooter or e-moped in preference to the illegal S class bicycle?
That would mean an easy choice,you either select an EN15194 spec bicycle which can ride anywhere or an e-moped which rides on the road. Looked at that way the S pedelec doesn't have a place,it cannot be used on cycle tracks but lacks the power and adaptability of a e-moped...perhaps others can explain the purpose of an S pedelec ?
KudosDave
Couple of good points there which it takes someone in the trade to think through.
Although if a seller is going to ignore the rules so blatantly, it doesn't really matter how those rules are framed.
As I understand it, if a product is found to be outside the specification of its specified type approval it will automatically be placed in the next class above and the supply chain would then be liable to any fines dictated by the member state in which it was placed on the road, so the end seller and supply chain would be liable for making it available and the end buyer would have a strong case should they suffer at the hands of the law for using it without the knowledge that it didn't comply.
Because some of us would like the option of a bit more speed but be able to pedal when we want to and appreciate that a S ped would be lighter and less bulky than a e moped. I be quite happy if they were restricted to a 350w motor and a 25mph limit. Even if that means moped type regulations having to be applied.
Nowhere near enough Dave, pedicabs generally weigh very much more, given the strength necessary to make them safe with three or four of any weight on board. The type of very high torque but legal motor they need, such as the heavy Lynch, is best served by adequate lead acid batteries which only adds to the weight. For a working day the batteries must be able to have more than the hour or two of running capacity that our e-bikes have. A typical motorised pedicab example weighs 145 kilos. Our regular legal e-bike motors and batteries of any kind aren't remotely adequate, for example the van body equivalent of one of these rickshaws is rated as 5 cwt / 250 kilos payload alone.
Despite the truth about the London taxi drivers opposition, it's the weight law that's being used to get the police to act. Without that they'd be powerless to object on legal grounds to such as I've described.
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Practical where riding without helmets is allowed, as in this example Trex. But not here.if e-mopeds are legal, there could be the kind of motorbike taxis where the paying customers sits pillions behind the rider. I've seen them in Asia. That'll beat the congested London traffic.
Anyway, the London pedicabs are a tourist market attraction, needing to carry two or three passengers.
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Would you be happy to have road use only? No promenades,no cycle tracks,no bridleways? With good design I think it may be possible to make an e-moped in the style of a bicycle but with 350 or even 500 watt power and 30 mph speed. But the feedback I get from customers is they want to use it everywhere they could use a bicycle and that is not possible,to be legal you would have to make a choice. I think the market for such a mongrel would be very small.
KudosDave
I would be interested even it meant road only for commuting purposes
I'd have two bikes then - one "mongrel" and one pedelec for leisure
But I don't doubt you are right about market size. Tiny
I'm not so certain... what's the UK market size for mopeds/scooters? ...their regulatory requirements are far more onerous than those for speed pedelecs, and speed pedelecs with a throttle can do almost everything better than a scooter can do in town, no?
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