Convert a Kona Cinder Cone to an electric bike; please help!

[Deleted member 4366]

Bafang makes it. You can buy the 500w version from BMSBattery. The complete kit costs about £500 including shipping and duty. I recently built a bike with that stuff for a guy with only one leg because he couldn't get up hills on his Wisper. His new bike on full power could get him up any of his hills without pedalling. I took it up our Lincoln hill, which reaches 31% and is about a mile long. If I had to go up that hill every day on my daily commute, that's the kit I would choose.

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/351-bafang-bpm2-48v500w-rear-driving-e-bike-hub-motor-ebike-kit.html

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/586-bafang-bpm2-48v500w-rear-driving-e-bike-motor-wheel-ebike-kit.html

 

[Nealh]

Something else for information Scott, you may have already twigged it. Any hub that is CST uses a splined cassette and others like BPM,Xiongda use a free wheel threaded cassette.

 

[Scott_J]

Thanks d8veh and Nealh
d8veh; earlier in the thread , you said:

"A crank-drive motor or the 2-speed Xiongda hub-motor would be a better solution because neither suffer from low-speed over-heating."

The Xiongda is out (I'm not stretching a new frame!!!) so I guess it's the BBS01 on an Eastway bike.

Michael stated:

"I'd have to say that a BBS01 straight out of the box meets all of those requirements. It will do the climb. It won't overheat because you can use the bike's gearing to allow the motor to spin at speed even whilst climbing slowly. It does of course fit 130mm rear dropout! It delivers over 500W straight out of the box even though it states 250W on the inscription plate. It won't rip a 700c wheel apart - it is very smooth in its power delivery. It is also very quiet and easy to install."

As I don't want the missus getting nicked by Le Plod, I guess this is the best option for me (and her!). She will climb slow (so will I for that matter). Hence this seems the best option, I guess...

anotherkiwi added:

"A 250W Bafung 8fun crank drive, with a 36V 15Ah battery, set to high assist mode will get to the top. Your significant other will have to pedal all the way but with little effort according to the calculator I posted a link to EDIT: did I say "no throttles allowed"?. the calculator says the pedelec can do it in 1 hour 12 minutes with a "lazy" rider or 58 minutes with a "fit" rider."

Again, this seems to have swung in favour of the 8fun and I'll stick a 30 sprocket on the back.

Can I stick a 48v battery with it?

Thanks all, this thread has been a great help to me.

Now, where should I get it from???

 

[trex]

there is no difference in pedalling effort and little difference in efficiency or power between the two, you pedal as much or as little as you like. The BBS01 is easier to fit.
By the way, you cannot overvolt the BBS01. To be honest, you can't overvolt the Xiongda kit neither. They are compact motors, the extra power may kill them. You can get BBS01 from Woosh or Eclipse, the Xiongda from China.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

AFAIK you can't run a 36V BBS01 at 48v. There's no point anyway because it only makes the crank spin too fast, so you'll lose a lot of efficiency at normal pedal speeds. If you want more power, you should get a 48v one.

To answer Trex's comment, you can indeed overvolt a Xiongda. I'm presently using a 36v one at 48v. You have to use the 48v controller. You can also run the 36v one at 44v (12S) using the 36v controller. The higher voltage pushes the gear-change point higher and gives more torque and speed. You can also get more torque out of the 36v one at 36v by soldering the shunt in the controller. Since changing from a 48v motor to a 36v, I have noticed a slight increase in battery consumption, which must be due to lower efficiency because the speed has always been limited to 15 mph.

 

[mfj197]

Can I stick a 48v battery with it?

No, I'm afraid not. But as d8veh says, all that would do is make it spin faster so her legs would have to fly to keep up. It wouldn't add climbing power at normal revs - to do that you need to increase the maximum current limit which as I say can be done by simple reprogramming. You might well not need to though.

Now, where should I get it from???

We actually have fairly good pricing of the BBS01 here in the UK, at least compared to the US, so if I were you I'd buy it from these shores which will mean you get full warranty support. I bought mine from Eclipse Bikes but there are a few places that stock it.

I'll stick a 30 sprocket on the back.

Yes, my cube has a 32! Should get me up anything.

Michael

 

[Scott_J]

Thanks Michael

What's the top speed of the 250W Bafung 8fun crank drive, with a 36V 15Ah battery on the flat, and how long can it hold it for?

Do I need the additional brake levers and throttle? Are they worth the money?

ps. Michael; hurry up and build that bike - I wanna see it!!!

 

[anotherkiwi]

http://www.bikecalc.com/speed_at_cadence

Top speed is all about gearing and pedal cadence. The faster she can pedal in top gear the faster it will go. The motor just adds extra power to your legs. You need the brake levers because they cut the motor when braking. The throttle is illegal in France but you can probably get away with it if you say it is (still) legal in the UK.

Yesterday I saw a video on you tube of a guy on a 20" folder with a 250W motor catching pro racers on a steep climb in the Tour of New Zealand...

Tony

 

[mfj197]

Thanks Michael

What's the top speed of the 250W Bafung 8fun crank drive, with a 36V 15Ah battery on the flat, and how long can it hold it for?

Exactly as Tony said. Incidentally up on the stand the no-load top speed of the BBS01 on my bike is 29mph (46-11 gearing, fast 40mm tyres so wheel size set to 28 inch).

Do I need the additional brake levers and throttle? Are they worth the money?

The ones that come with the kit are the only really cheap part. You are using cable operated brakes so you could use them, but if it were me I'd retain the originals and use hidden wire brake sensors or the ones marketed for hydraulic brakes (that will fit any levers). These are the ones I used. Or you could use none at all, which actually I might have done because my BBS01 doesn't cut out when I'm pedalling even if I pull the brakes. I'm not sure that is the correct operation!

ps. Michael; hurry up and build that bike - I wanna see it!!!

It might be on the road this week! Bike's done, just been waterproofing the saddlepack for holding battery and clothes the last couple of evenings.

Michael

 

[trex]

...
Or you could use none at all, which actually I might have done because my BBS01 doesn't cut out when I'm pedalling even if I pull the brakes. I'm not sure that is the correct operation!
..
Michael

I knew you've got your kit from Eclipse. Why didn't you contact them about this? I think that your controller is wrongly programmed, it should cut the power when the brake sensor is activated.

 

[mfj197]

I knew you've got your kit from Eclipse. I would have thought that you would have contacted them about this already. I think that your controller is wrongly programmed, it should cut the power when the brake sensor is activated.

I have contacted them already, and am actually writing a reply to them right now! They seemed to imply it was normal, and suggested I wouldn't continue to pedal whilst pulling the brakes. I mentioned it here to make sure I wasn't being silly and that it isn't the expected behaviour. Do you think it is something that can be changed by using the programming software (which I have, and a lead)?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Scott. Just to make the speed thing clear. 29 mph is the speed with a 28" wheel off the ground. With that sort of gearing, you won't get anywhere near that speed on the road except downhill or with a gale blowing from behind.

On the road, top speed will be much less. It's very difficult to judge when there's no wind or hill when you're riding, but the ones that I rode would do something like 20 mph.

These motors feel like they've got reasonable torque in the low gears, but each time you change up a gear, the torque at the back wheel goes down. In top gear, it rarely has enough torque to maintain your speed, so you'd soon be changing back down again and travelling at a lower speed. Obviously, the more streamlined you are, the faster you go, just like with any bike.

Looking at it another way, the standard 250w BBS01 gives about 400w of output power, which is enough to get a normal bike up to about 21 mph.; however, depending on your gearing, you won't get maximum power at that speed. If you're geared for 27 mph max, power reduces after 18 mph, so your actual top speed in a flat velodrome with no wind will be somewhere between 18mph and 21 mph.

 

[trex]

I have contacted them already, and am actually writing a reply to them right now! They seemed to imply it was normal, and suggested I wouldn't continue to pedal whilst pulling the brakes. I mentioned it here to make sure I wasn't being silly and that it isn't the expected behaviour. Do you think it is something that can be changed by using the programming software (which I have, and a lead)?

there are quite a few members with BBS01, including frequent posters like nealh, mechaniker (he sells tons of the stuff) and myself. I have hydraulic brakes without sensor so I can't verify right now for you but I have ridden BBS01 with brake sensors many times and as far as I can recall, the behaviour is normally motor cuts out when brakes are squeezed.

 

[Nealh]

Talk of the devil and here he is . Can confirm 18A BBS cuts out under braking and also the same with the throttle. Is your magnet being sensed properly by the sensor .

 

[Scott_J]

http://www.bikecalc.com/speed_at_cadence

Yesterday I saw a video on you tube of a guy on a 20" folder with a 250W motor catching pro racers on a steep climb in the Tour of New Zealand...

Tony

If that's the Tour of New Zealand, then they sure have a lot of fat cyclists and no crowd coverage!
My guess, is that it's an amateur Sunday event.

Made me laugh and thanks for the bike calculator Tony.

Thanks for ALL the info guys; much appreciated & Michael: build that bike!!!

Sooooooo, am I right in saying a 350w motor will give more power on the flat?

 

[Nealh]

Scott the 18a BBS will let you go to about 30 mph (unrestricted) on the flat maybe more if you are really fit and have the legs to pedal, but that is dependant on which assist level you set it on. I get typically 17 - 22 mph depending on how flat the road is, wind direction and even air pressure makes a difference with it on assist level 5 with a slight down gradient up to 27 is achieved. I have ridden with it on assist levels 6,7,8 and 9 and it does shift with fairly little effort more so 7- 9. I now ride on 5 as I wasn't gaining any benefit except for going faster, I now feel that I am inputting the right amount of effort for me.
The throttle propels me at the about the legal speed 15mph on 5 and up to 19/20 in higher level of assists, my set up currently is 52t front and 34-11t rear. I'm still not 100% happy with the front gearing so will at some stage try a 48t, the 46t was I certainly found to be under geared.

 

[Scott_J]

Thanks Neal. Is that with the 350w motor and can you buy front chainrings for the BBS?

 

[mfj197]

Talk of the devil and here he is . Can confirm 18A BBS cuts out under braking and also the same with the throttle. Is your magnet being sensed properly by the sensor .

Yup, the sensor works fine and cuts the motor when I'm using throttle for drive. It just doesn't cut the motor when turning the cranks to actuate drive rather than the throttle. I thought it wasn't right!

Thanks Nealh.

 

[Nealh]

Scott, yes you can get 44,48 & 52t rings. 46 is the std one with the kit.
15a = 250w
18a= 350w
I think I read earlier in the thread you are in Crawley as I am, so pm me and I can bring the bike over to you for a look see and ride if you wish some time after the weekend.

 

[Sylvester]

Thanks Neal. Is that with the 350w motor and can you buy front chainrings for the BBS?

One place you can get alternative chain rings is EM3ev