I was referring to the cytronex charger. The lead coming from the battery connector was loose on mine because the lead is too narrow. Easily made more secure though as described above.
Cytronex bike on Gadget Show Tonight
- Thread starter NRG
- Start date
I think a full discharge can be done anytime. I certainly did one when I received the bike s/h and it had done 1600 miles.
If there are any problems with charging or discharging/miles covered I would certainly recommend it.
Regards
Jerry
If there are any problems with charging or discharging/miles covered I would certainly recommend it.
Regards
Jerry
At 2500 I am starting to notice a small decline. Originally it would comfortably get back from work (which is more up hill than on the way to work) but now it is sometimes cutting out on the final hill. It did cut out on the way to work but I cannot work out if there had been a problem with the charging. Anyway I will either have to put in more work or get a new battery.
PS I had been charging it overnight as it is in the garage and I couldn't be bothered to go back in an hour and switch it off. I thought that when it finished charging it would just switch off, however Mark suggested it was bad to do this, so now it is on a timer.
PS I had been charging it overnight as it is in the garage and I couldn't be bothered to go back in an hour and switch it off. I thought that when it finished charging it would just switch off, however Mark suggested it was bad to do this, so now it is on a timer.
One time my charger stopped charging after only 3 minutes despite me knowing the battery was fully discharged. I turned the charger off, waited 5 mins and turned it on again. Next time it took 1 hour 15mins.
I wonder if the occasion your battery gave up on the outward journey it had done the same thing and the charger had incorrectly detected a full battery.
Also I don't think batteries like being left out in the cold - so it might be worth considering charging indoors.
I wonder if the occasion your battery gave up on the outward journey it had done the same thing and the charger had incorrectly detected a full battery.
Also I don't think batteries like being left out in the cold - so it might be worth considering charging indoors.
I agree they always work better warm but, for the return journey it is always charged inside. Also I know it might be cold in the garage but the charging finishes just before my journey starts so the battery is still warm when I set off.
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I picked up my new Cytronex Synapse (190 motor fitted) last Friday and managed to put in 3 conditioning runs at the weekend (dodging rain showers). Each run consisted of running the battery on max power with only pedaling movement to ensure the motor was running (no rider input). The route consists of a long slog hill approx 1 mile, one short 14% hill approx 1/3 mile and the rest on the flat approx 4 miles, the battery lasted 5.5 miles for each run, it died at the same point each time. Lights on the whole time (approx 40 mins each time). Each charge of the battery lasted no longer than 1hr 15 or 20 mins each time and I overcharged (8 hours) as per instructions for the conditioning charges.
Went for an evening blast of 17 miles with moderate hills this evening, being frugal with the motor only using low power on the uphills and full power on the almost flat when my legs couldn't sustain over 15mph, otherwise turned off motor when not needed and rider input the whole way around and no loss of battery power at the end. Average speed 15mph. Lights on the whole time (just over an hour). The following charging period lasted approx 1hr, so my calculation is that 22-27 miles is possible on a battery which seems to tally with some other's findings I've read on the forum. Although I can't be sure if other's findings are based on flat roads running low/high power etc.
I'm assuming the battery is new, I weigh 90Kg and am average fitness, ideal weight would be around 80Kg. I hope this is useful info, maybe too much info !!
I've noticed that 24 hours following a full charge the battery can be charged for a further 30mins, anyone know why this is? Maybe we should start a Cytronex battery thread in the battery section?
Went for an evening blast of 17 miles with moderate hills this evening, being frugal with the motor only using low power on the uphills and full power on the almost flat when my legs couldn't sustain over 15mph, otherwise turned off motor when not needed and rider input the whole way around and no loss of battery power at the end. Average speed 15mph. Lights on the whole time (just over an hour). The following charging period lasted approx 1hr, so my calculation is that 22-27 miles is possible on a battery which seems to tally with some other's findings I've read on the forum. Although I can't be sure if other's findings are based on flat roads running low/high power etc.
I'm assuming the battery is new, I weigh 90Kg and am average fitness, ideal weight would be around 80Kg. I hope this is useful info, maybe too much info !!
I've noticed that 24 hours following a full charge the battery can be charged for a further 30mins, anyone know why this is? Maybe we should start a Cytronex battery thread in the battery section?
Thanks Tim, It's useful to know how a new battery bahaves.
I don't know why the charger would think that it can charge for an extra 30mins 24 hours after a previous full charge. Guess it could be that the battery has lost some charge but more likely down to the method used to switch off the charger being not ever so precise. Does anyone know how the Cytronex charger works? Is there a temperature sensor within the battery that is used or does the charger watch for change in voltage/current curve?
I don't know why the charger would think that it can charge for an extra 30mins 24 hours after a previous full charge. Guess it could be that the battery has lost some charge but more likely down to the method used to switch off the charger being not ever so precise. Does anyone know how the Cytronex charger works? Is there a temperature sensor within the battery that is used or does the charger watch for change in voltage/current curve?
I would say both. There is def a third thin wire that goes into the battery via the charger connector which is probably for temperature.
The whole battery config seems complicated and I suspect a well a guarded secret.
If I had a dud one I would love to take it apart
Opps better not wish for that too hard
Regards
Jerry
Some answers to your questions:
1. When the battery is conditioned the bike just needs to be used until the power runs out. This does not have to be in one journey of course but it needs to run out in low speed at the end to use most of the capacity. After this the battery should be left on charge overnight.
2. Leaving the charger for an extended period after the fast charge (e.g. overnight) will over charge the battery and bring the individual cells into balance. The conditioning phase at the start is necessary to effectively bed in the battery chemistry, but after each 50 charges or so the cells will get slightly out of balance resulting in the charger cutting off early and slightly lower range. So it is a good idea to do one conditioning charge in every 50 charges or so to bring the cells back into balance.
3. It is definitely not a good idea to leave the battery on overnight ever time however, because continued overcharging will degrade the cells. Better to use a timer if you want a nice warm battery in the morning, or charge in the afternoon at work.
4. Equally I would not advise charging again once fully charged. The charger uses 5 different indicators to cut off charging at the right point, one of which is monitoring the temperature curve from the thermistor inside the battery. Leaving the battery to cool down then charging again will mean that the temperature curve data is effectively reset and this could provide a rapid overcharge.
5. Originally the battery was bench tested to 300 cycles with a conditioning charge every 50 cycles and still had a capacity of 90%. Whilst we do have a battery that is still going strong having done more than 3,500 miles on the road, it eventually got used for shows and demos so we don’t know exactly how many it has done now.
6. Tim’s new battery should continue to improve a little after the conditioning phase.
On a separate issue concerning Pedalo’s charger, it sounds as if the wires were cut a little too long before the contacts were crimped – just unscrew the rear section of the back shell (which clamps around the cable) then push some cable into the back shell before doing it up again tightly to clamp. It will clamp the cable nicely if it is tight enough.
Hope the above helps!
Mark
1. When the battery is conditioned the bike just needs to be used until the power runs out. This does not have to be in one journey of course but it needs to run out in low speed at the end to use most of the capacity. After this the battery should be left on charge overnight.
2. Leaving the charger for an extended period after the fast charge (e.g. overnight) will over charge the battery and bring the individual cells into balance. The conditioning phase at the start is necessary to effectively bed in the battery chemistry, but after each 50 charges or so the cells will get slightly out of balance resulting in the charger cutting off early and slightly lower range. So it is a good idea to do one conditioning charge in every 50 charges or so to bring the cells back into balance.
3. It is definitely not a good idea to leave the battery on overnight ever time however, because continued overcharging will degrade the cells. Better to use a timer if you want a nice warm battery in the morning, or charge in the afternoon at work.
4. Equally I would not advise charging again once fully charged. The charger uses 5 different indicators to cut off charging at the right point, one of which is monitoring the temperature curve from the thermistor inside the battery. Leaving the battery to cool down then charging again will mean that the temperature curve data is effectively reset and this could provide a rapid overcharge.
5. Originally the battery was bench tested to 300 cycles with a conditioning charge every 50 cycles and still had a capacity of 90%. Whilst we do have a battery that is still going strong having done more than 3,500 miles on the road, it eventually got used for shows and demos so we don’t know exactly how many it has done now.
6. Tim’s new battery should continue to improve a little after the conditioning phase.
On a separate issue concerning Pedalo’s charger, it sounds as if the wires were cut a little too long before the contacts were crimped – just unscrew the rear section of the back shell (which clamps around the cable) then push some cable into the back shell before doing it up again tightly to clamp. It will clamp the cable nicely if it is tight enough.
Hope the above helps!
Mark
Thanks Mark, useful information. If the battery is charging for less than the stated 1.5 hours ie around 1hr 15/20mins is that an indication that the battery is not conditioned fully and I should go for a conditioning run on low power (instead of high power as I have been) ?
Tim.
Tim.
Thanks Mark - yes you were right. On closer inspection I can see the wires inside the connector are a little long. I did as you suggested and the clamp works much better. It does still allow a little rotation of the cable though so I'll leave the small strip of rubber as detailed in my post above there to make it even more secure.
BTW my bike has been peforming admirably over the last few weeks depite all the rain that's been thrown at it. My route is through narrow country lanes and on a couple of occasions I've had to cycle through some shallow floodwater (up to about 4 inches). It didn't actually reach the motor or the controller under the bottom bracket but they got a good splashing. I switched off the electrics going through it and I held my breath when starting the motor again afterwards. I'm very pleased and surprised there's been no problems at all and it is this reliable. I'm sure I'm tempting fate!
Only slight issue is that I have just noticed that the rear light sometimes flickers and goes out when the wire leading into it is touched. I'll see if I can fix that this weekend - and I'll also treat the bike a very good clean. It's plastered in mud!
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Wow I had never thought about the danger of going through puddles I just plow on through. Though I guess if you covered the controller and/or motor (you would almost be swimming anyway) I suspect it would short.
Re the light connections I am not sure what the new bikes are like but I have replaced most of the connectors all round on the lights with new ones (incl the back light which had some strange push and clamp affair). On the back light there are some pins so you can fit connectors if you choose to. They are now all tight and have had no problems at all.
I been chickening out during this foul weather but rode in this morning in gloriuos sunshine. Part of my route was shut which meant a longer journey and a steep hill, but knowing I had my battery assistance softened the blow and the bike just sailed up the cycle path steep incline
Regards
Jerry
Re the light connections I am not sure what the new bikes are like but I have replaced most of the connectors all round on the lights with new ones (incl the back light which had some strange push and clamp affair). On the back light there are some pins so you can fit connectors if you choose to. They are now all tight and have had no problems at all.
I been chickening out during this foul weather but rode in this morning in gloriuos sunshine. Part of my route was shut which meant a longer journey and a steep hill, but knowing I had my battery assistance softened the blow and the bike just sailed up the cycle path steep incline
Regards
Jerry
Yes, the push/clamp arrangement doesn't feel ever so solid and I'll switch to using the other connectors. Looks like a good excuse to go and buy a crimping tool...
Flatty
Well what would you know went out to my Cytronex to ride home from work and had a flatty
It was the back wheel and I dug out a great big slitther of glass.
Fortunately I had a spare tube and a place inside work to change it.
Looking at the tyres I am pretty sure they are the originals they are quite worn and this glass has left a gash in the back one.
Might as well get two I don't really want that hassle again. I found these. Seems like a good price
2 x New Schwalbe Marathon Plus Tour Tyres - 700c x 28mm on eBay (end time 21-Dec-09 08:09:46 GMT)
The originals say Bontrager 700 * 35C so I guess these would be thinner ?
Ps Maybe these are a better match
SCHWALBE Marathon Plus 700 x 35C - 28" x 13/8" Tyre on eBay (end time 05-Dec-09 14:01:30 GMT)
I am confused they seem to label them differently
These
Schwalbe Marathon PLUS Road Bike Tyres 700 x 28 NEW! on eBay (end time 07-Dec-09 08:28:04 GMT)
Sorry thinking out loud. Maybe plus are too tough to fit and these would be better. Certainly and exact match
SCHWALBE MARATHON 700 X 35c HYBRID TYRE on eBay (end time 28-Nov-09 09:43:14 GMT)
Regards
Jerry
Well what would you know went out to my Cytronex to ride home from work and had a flatty
It was the back wheel and I dug out a great big slitther of glass.
Fortunately I had a spare tube and a place inside work to change it.
Looking at the tyres I am pretty sure they are the originals they are quite worn and this glass has left a gash in the back one.
Might as well get two I don't really want that hassle again. I found these. Seems like a good price
2 x New Schwalbe Marathon Plus Tour Tyres - 700c x 28mm on eBay (end time 21-Dec-09 08:09:46 GMT)
The originals say Bontrager 700 * 35C so I guess these would be thinner ?
Ps Maybe these are a better match
SCHWALBE Marathon Plus 700 x 35C - 28" x 13/8" Tyre on eBay (end time 05-Dec-09 14:01:30 GMT)
I am confused they seem to label them differently
These
Schwalbe Marathon PLUS Road Bike Tyres 700 x 28 NEW! on eBay (end time 07-Dec-09 08:28:04 GMT)
Sorry thinking out loud. Maybe plus are too tough to fit and these would be better. Certainly and exact match
SCHWALBE MARATHON 700 X 35c HYBRID TYRE on eBay (end time 28-Nov-09 09:43:14 GMT)
Regards
Jerry
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Tim – suggest you do another conditioning cycle, you don’t need to do it all on low power, use it as you like but finish off on low power. It should gradually improve after that. If you are still having problems contact me direct (I don’t often get a chance to look at the forum) and I will put it on one of our new conditioning chargers.
Ref the Busch & Muller lights – all the front light connections should have B&M spades crimped on already. The rear light clamp (which only requires bare wires) does work well but only if the bar is pushed up hard enough (mine has never been a problem). If you have a flicker then pull down the bar check that the wires are stripped properly then reinsert and push the bar up firmly whilst supporting the light.
No need to worry about using the system in the wet – once the battery plug is on the system is sealed. I have been through fords on mine without issue, but it would probably be prduent to avoid completely submersing components and we do say that you shouldn’t pressure wash the bike because of the possibility of blowing seals.
Be nice to get some decent weather at some stage – my journey to work involves going through a pig farm so I have been arriving at work covered in mud recently - my waterproofs will now stand up on their own!
Ref the Busch & Muller lights – all the front light connections should have B&M spades crimped on already. The rear light clamp (which only requires bare wires) does work well but only if the bar is pushed up hard enough (mine has never been a problem). If you have a flicker then pull down the bar check that the wires are stripped properly then reinsert and push the bar up firmly whilst supporting the light.
No need to worry about using the system in the wet – once the battery plug is on the system is sealed. I have been through fords on mine without issue, but it would probably be prduent to avoid completely submersing components and we do say that you shouldn’t pressure wash the bike because of the possibility of blowing seals.
Be nice to get some decent weather at some stage – my journey to work involves going through a pig farm so I have been arriving at work covered in mud recently - my waterproofs will now stand up on their own!
Jerry, you could just call SJS and get advise over the phone....the price is the same:
Schwalbe Marathon Plus Kevlar HS348 Tyre
Schwalbe Marathon Plus Kevlar HS348 Tyre
Jerry - you should go either the same size or one size smaller (700cX32). I would only say go smaller as the marathons are slightly taller than the originals. I have put on a pair (though they were 38s on a Trek 7100FX) and found they didn't clear the mudguards - I then bought new mudguards and they didn't clear them either.
Yes thanks your right and I can discuss with them my concerns about fitting the very rigid plus's. The puncture proof is attractive as its a real bind when you leave work to find a flat. Maybe it was just bad luck. I'v been riding five or six weeks and this is the first.
Ps thanks for the warning Harry.
Regards
Jerry
Ps thanks for the warning Harry.
Regards
Jerry
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Dumb question - How would I tell if the bontrager tyres on my bike were getting worn out? They are slick tyres so I can't judge by looking at the tread. They've done about 1350 miles.
I fixed the rear light connection. The wires were just getting a little frayed. I simply restripped them and refitted and they're fine now. No need for the crimp tool!
I fixed the rear light connection. The wires were just getting a little frayed. I simply restripped them and refitted and they're fine now. No need for the crimp tool!
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